Engine Installation Sequence?
 

Any tips on sequencing my first engine installation? Or, advice on things to double-check before starting?

My thought has been to install the engine before the shocks, brakes, cv joints, engine skirts, or heater hoses – thinking this will leave more room to work. If that’s not right, let me know!

There’s still some details to attend to before I install the motor in my 1979 SC (was sent two left side heater hose clamps and waiting for the right side to arrive) but I’m getting close. If there’s a ‘better/best’ way to do any of this, please chime in!

BTW, I tried a search on 'engine installation' and into page 6 of the query results, I didn't have any 'hits.' Maybe I don't know how to use the search function?!

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Install clutch, new pilot bearing, attach trans and install. I would do it before all the things you listed.

Thanks gomez! The clutch and pressure plate have about 25m miles on them. I wasn't planning on replacing them. Think I should?

I haven't taken the car that far apart, but there's really no issue hoisting the engine & trans (as one unit) up as the last thing you do. I guess the CV joints are slightly in the way, but not enough to have much reason to hold out on installing them.

I usually roll the motor under the car with the thing up enough to get the it under the bumper & valence then with the motor & dolly in place lower the car back down as to not have to raise it so high for install.


if your 1st time it might not be a bad idea to have a second set of hands & eyes. even if just to steady things if the motor moves around any while balanced on the jack also, to pat you on the back when it's in place and have a beer ready when completed.

If you mean the engine tins around the motor when you say engine skirts, those would be a royal pain to install after the motor is in. Put those on along with the heater hoses before installing the motor. You want that to be as complete as possible going in. The rest of the stuff can be done with motor in or out, so no issue waiting until after for shocks, CV's, brakes, etc.

Do you have a checklist of stuff to reconnect? I made one before I started and edited as I went with the removal in the order that I did it and then did the reverse as I installed.
If you don't, I can post up what I used, but its a little different since I have a turbo, but still pretty close.

Here it was with tins and hoses installed prior to reinstallation of the motor.

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Install shocks before engine goes in.

can you elaborate as to why?

Shock top nuts are much easier to reach without the motor there.

Is that my air filter?

well played sir. It's been so many years I often forget how full the engine bay gets with CIS. im used to carbs and the accessibility they afford. if they are installed 1st you'd likely suggest tying them back and out of the way. both them and CV's dangling there can be a pain. this car appears to have the CV's removed, but I wire them up high and then when the motor/tranny gets elevated enough I drop them back down below the tranny and rewire them low as to not stress the boots if not new ones. tore one during one of my 1st installs with them at foo droop.

It most certainly is Will!

Works perfect! SmileWavy

I'm going through pretty much the same thing.
Everything that was attached to the motor when you pulled it should be on it before installing.
I'm working on my heater boxes and some other little things and they were much easier with the motor out. Not to mention the cleaning.
Doing the brake overhaul before putting the motor in just because.

you are aware of the install u-tube video from your thread?
Certainly seems the shocks and CV joints are easier before the engine is in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAZm6SyTS1U

Thanks a lot fellas!

Driven, I have to admit that dangling cv joints annoy me! It probably doesn’t matter much, but I’ll take your advice and install them first. Also, I’ve never had a problem tightening the nuts on top of the shocks, but you and Shadow are probably right about that also – will do!

Juan, good tip on lowering the car. I don’t think my RV lift would go high enough to install the engine.

Jeff, the engine tins (what some guys call ‘pans’ ) will go on first. What I meant by ‘skirts’ are the rubber pieces that surround the inside of the engine bay; to keep the weather out. I’m not sure whether to replace them or not, but it might be hard to do with the engine installed.

I probably shouldn’t have mentioned the rubber skirts, since they’re not part of a normal engine in/out. They were on my mind and I wrote them down without thinking. Sorry for that confusion.

I do not have a ‘written check-list’ – but I think I’ve gotten to most everything. Still, if it’s not inconvenient I’d enjoy seeing yours. It might also be helpful as a future reference for others.

By the way, Jeff, that photo with the tail-lights illuminated makes it look like you’re about to, throw ‘er into reverse and back onto the engine! That’s pretty good driving, if you can hit the bolt holes dead nuts center!! :-)

Rod wrote: “Everything that was attached to the motor when you pulled it should be on it before installing.” – Well, Rod... pretty close… I’ve got everything except for the parts in that box labeled... ‘I wonder where this went?’... Just kidding! :-)

Mike, thanks for the reminder on the You-tube video. I’ve been using Craig D’s thread for reference and haven’t spent a lot of time with the video. I’ll look at it tonight. Here’s Craig’s thread

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/726309-78-sc-elephant-racing-suspension-rebuild-22.html

You guys have been wonderfully helpful. Based on your advice I’m going to change my tack and install the shocks and CV joints. I’ll do that while I wait for that right-side heater valve/hose clamp that’s holding everything up.

Today I visited my paint supplier and he mixed me up a rattle can of Glacier Blue Mettalic. I’ve been cleaning and touching up the engine compartment. A slow solvent, like toluene or paint thinner, seemed to work best on that tar-like gooey foam that clings to the inboard side of the torsion bar tube.

Working on that got me thinking on two questions:

1) Should I install new foam between the torsion bar tube and the cabin? Was the gooey-foam intended to keep the weather out of the engine compartment? I’ve done some nifty things with ‘pool noodles’ on my band-saw! What do you think of a custom cut pool noodle to seal that area?

2) Should I rebuild, re-grease, or do whatever one does, with my CV joints before I install them? They weren’t causing me any problems, so I was going to put them back into the car exactly as the came out. I haven’t had time to read up on CV joints and would appreciate a push in whichever direction I should be headed.

As always, you guys are great! I don’t know how I’d get these project done without your help!

Robert

No on your CV joints “exactly as out”. They should be swapped from hub side to tranny side by rotating the axel 180 degrees. The swapping equalizes the wear on them. Not sure on the re-greasing question.

Mike, thanks! I've never heard that. That's very interesting !

When I had my engine out last time I removed the foam as well as the engine pad.

I found when I drove down my dusty laneway it created a vacuum and sucked a big cloud of dust into my engine bay with out them.

I have since installed the OEM foam and pad as well as a piece of pipe insulation. The pipe insulation is much more dense than a pool noodle and should last longer.

There is potentially lots of heat in the area so I'm not sure how the noodle would hold up.

I reinserted my engine, with my wife's help, a few years back. We had the engine raised up a little bit off the ground, and lowered the car onto it.
Just take it slow. If something sticks, stop and figure out what it is. It will fit perfectly if you are doing it right, so don't force it if you get stuck. If you are tired or can't figure something out, take a break and come back later.

The moment when it started up afterwards was one of the biggest moments of excitement in all my Porsche work (up there with the home re-wired fuse box). Be sure to post pics!

The rubber engine bay seal should be done with the motor out. It's not that difficult to do. if yours is brittle and ugly do it now. Make sure you clean the channel out really well. Place the bottom of the new seal in the channel about 6 inches at a time and use a plastic trim tool to push the upper potion into the channel. I found that not using any "lube" actually made it easier. It takes a little effort and about 1/2 hour but it's not that bad.

^^^ Good advice.
I also shut off any sources of noise.
You can usually hear anything hitting.

I would definitely look closely at that rubber seal. Mine was dried and brittle in a few spots and would not seal well if left in. So I replaced it and i cant imagine actually doing it with the engine in, so be sure it is good now and replace first, if necessary.

I also replaced the foam pad at the front firewall and the foam in that gap between the shock crossmount and the firewall which is right below the foam pad. I think that is the one you are talking about. I found some dense foam on amazon that seemed it would hold up to heat better and used that. It seems to be fine a few years later. You can see the new rubber engine seal in these pics too.

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Here is my list for my removal. i did the reverse for the install. Since mine is a turbo, some stuff doesnt apply to yours, but all the rest should be the same. If anyone wants to edit for clarity or for non-turbo's, have at it.

Disconnect battery
Removed IC
Removed AC
Removed air intake – disconnected three hoses
Drained oil
Removed oil tube from tank to cooler
Disconnected three electrical connectors on left side of engine
Disconnected two breather hoses on right side
Disconnected breather hose on left side
Disconnected 3 connectors for fuel on car side and two connectors on motor side
Removed fuel hose assy from CIS to filter/accumulator
Disconnected electrical plug behind motor
Disconnected large oil line across back of motor
Disconnect heat ducts
Disconnect starter cables
Disconnect reverse switch cable
Disconnect throttle linkage
Disconnect CVs from trans.
Disconnect speedo sensor over rt side CV
Disconnect clutch cable
Remove clutch arms, and springs
Remove sway bar
Removed 4 bolts and dropped the motor

I’m stopping for lunch after spending the morning rebuilding the pedal cluster – something else I wasn’t going to do!

The rubber engine compartment seal isn’t exactly dry or brittle, but it isn’t ‘new’ either. It’s often hard to judge these things. I’ve replaced a lot of rubber that I suspect others would be happy to use. But I may order another seal anyway. What’s one more ‘while your in there’ after the hundreds that went before?

Miki911, thanks for your detailed instructions!

Rod, you wrote: “^^^ Good advice.
I also shut off any sources of noise.
You can usually hear anything hitting.”

I’m pretty sure you mean that the rubber engine compartment seal shuts out noise, yes?

Jeff, thanks for your list and all the photos! There’s a company in my town that specializes in acoustic foam of all variety. I’ve met the owner, so I’ll see what he might suggest. Did you see my ‘pool noodle’ idea? Using my band-saw, I think I could cut the rounds off of two sides to get a perfect fit.

Anyone else have thoughts on the CV joints? There were no issues with the CV’s when the car was running and the rubber looks fine. Should I replace them anyway? And if I’m doing that, I might as well rebuild them. Yes? No?

Thanks again for your help!

I did my CV work with engine in the car. I don’t think you gain a ton of efficiency by doing it with engine out. So no great opportunity missed if you postpone. Next time I do it I’ll buy new complete assemblies (half shaft plus 2 CVs already attached). You can’t really rebuild a CV joint cost effectively from my understanding.

I meant shutting off any sources of noise in your garage.
This way you can hear if anything is hitting while you lower the car. Saved my ass putting in the motor for my 996tt

You are welcome! I just did this in my 67 a week ago :)

Thank you 911 Rod

If you have any question of the condition of the CV Joints complete axle sets are now relatively cheap. I would just replace them and you will have piece of mind the bearings are good with nice new grease.

Good morning gents!

With appointments today I’ll only get a few hours in on the car. It’s frustrating to be held up when your on a roll! More frustrating is myself holding myself up!

Why is it that in a day’s time, I only finish about half of what I expect to? There’s always one more thing to paint, lubricate, or modify. Always a part, bolt, or tool that’s suddenly needs a search party to find. Or a change in direction that requires waiting for a part to arrive?

Yesterday, I got the pedal cluster nicely rebuilt and then remembered I had a brand new clutch pedal shaft in inventory. Gotta use the new part. So I disassembled the whole thing, installed the new shaft – and discovered the roll pin wouldn’t fit. A little metrology indicated the shaft hole was undersize. So, take it all apart, put it up on the drill press and drill out ½ a millimeter. Ooh, now here’s a chance to use that new adjustable reamer set… and by the time I’m finished the day is done!

I know that this kinda thing never happens to you guys, but for me – it’s part of the fun! (Most of the time.)

Rod, shutting out the noise of anything untoward is a really good idea. My shop is so quiet, I mistook what you meant. Thanks for clarifying.

Miki and OldSpool, excellent points! Sometimes I lose the forest for the trees. I’m so conditioned to astronomic Porsche part prices, that I didn’t even check the price of new CV joints. I just figured, “There’s another $1,000.” But at $250 a piece, I’ll buy new, now or later. As OldSpool says, now or later, probably doesn’t change the equation much.

Today I hope to close the tunnel up. The new fuel lines are in. So now I need to install the rebuilt pedal cluster, e-brake and seine shifter assembly.

I’m not a machinist or an expert on anything, but I used machinist tools to get over some hurdle in all three of those projects – graduated drills, reamers, taps, hand grinders, and deburring tools. I’m not sure how I could work on this car without them.

Reading numerous threads on these assemblies, I noticed that a number of Pelicans seem unfamiliar with machinist tools. I’m absolutely not being critical. I simply saw more than a couple of threads recommending something like, “put part A in the freezer and part B in the oven” – where a simple hand reamer would have made life easy.

I only mention this, thinking that someone may read this in the future and see an avenue to solve a particular problem.

As always, thanks so much for your help. Without you guys, I would see the trees when I need to or the forest when it was important!

Oh, I ordered the rubber engine compartment gasket, seal, whatever. It was under $100. I would not even have looked if you guys hadn’t prompted me!

Here's some photos of my pedal cluster and new short shifter.

I drilled and tapped the shaft of my 'short shifter' so the locking screw on the 917 style knob would go through the shaft and press against the opposite wall. I think this is more secure than the friction fit of the screws provided with the knob. The other securing screw, I left as a friction fit. Locktite on both and it works great.

The ID of the 917 knob collar was smaller than OD of the shifter shaft. I could have reduced the diameter of the shaft, but the collar has more meat on it, so I chose to bore it out slightly with an adjustable reamer.

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