Buying second hand 88 Carrera

[Foss]

My first post and i wonder if someone could give me a few tips.
(Hope this is the right board to ask)

Finally i've saved up enough to get myself a second hand Carrera.
I was told that what i'm looking for is preferrably a 87-> with g50 gearbox and hydraulic clutch.

I have set my sight on a 88' with 147000 km on its back.
The car has followed all the services and after looking/driving the car it really "feels" like a car in good condition.

I have a few questions (bear in mind that i'm no mechanic.)

Is there any obvious things that i should look for by visual inspection?

And.

Are there any known weeknessess on this model. What maintainance/at what cost will be necessary for a car with this milage in the near future?

I have searched the web for info but without success. Hope someone can help me here.

Thx.

Tore.

[jazzbass]

I just went through this same process, buying a '85. Lots of people say that the G50 is a better transmission; I was leaning this way, too, until I found the '85 for an amazing price and went for the earlier model. That said, there are lots of guys that will tell you that the 87-89 cars are some of the best 911s ever made (I tend to agree). Your mileage (or kilometerage - is that a word?) seems about normal, and really isn't too bad for these cars if they've been taken care of.

The best piece of advice I can give is to get the car to a good Porsche mechanic for a pre-purschase inspection. Expect to pay about $200, but this money well spent. Bear in mind, if the engine has serious problems (needs a rebuild), you can pay anywhere between $3,000 and $10,000 for this.

At your mileage, you can expect to have to pay for a good tune up/major service - adjust valves, change fluidsl/filters, etc, which runs about $900. You may also need a new clutch (~$1500) and a update kit for the G50, if not installed.

Keep in mind that these cars are 15 years old and do need maintenence. Like a lot of guys, I love to work on my car myself, so its not a big deal, and, from my experience, parts for these cars aren't too bad (most are cheaper than their equavilent for a late model Honda or Toyota). What is not cheap, IME, is labor, and this is where the cost of owning any Porsche can get expensive. If you're not doing your own wrenching, I don't think $1,500/yr in maintenence is out of the question. Not trying to talk you out of buying one, just want to set your expectations realistically. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

[Stuttgart951]

Good points above.

I just went through this process myself and purchased an 88.

The G50 tranny is a definate plus, but there is nothing wrong with a well maintained 915 tranny.

At 145,000 km, the car should be in good shape. There are few weaknesses with the 3.2L cars.

Valve guide wear: This problem seems to be random in occurance. IF it effects a certain car, it would have been found and fixed long ago.

In addition, at around 145K Km, the car must be on its second clutch - if the clutch was replaced, you can bet the G50 update was also done. If for some reason the car is still on its origional clutch - plan on a $2,000 bill for a new assembly and update.

If the car feels good, it probably is, but be sure to have a mechanic check the car out throughly before you purchase - any Porsche can be a dream or nightmare to own - be sure you know what youre getting into.

Get ahold of every book you can find and read up on all models to get a general backgroud and a basic idea of what you should be looking for.

When I look at used cars, 911's in particular, there are a few basic "on the spot" checks I perform:

1.) Run your hand underneath the front and rear flares. It should feel rough - kind of like an orange peel. This is a factory coating and will be present unless the fender has been replaced - if the coating is not there, the car might have been in an accident.

2.) General condition of interior and exterior will tell you how well the owner cared for the car overall.

3.) Check the service records. If oil changes were frequent, maintenance was performed, and updates done, you can bet the car has been in good hands.

4.) Check for rust in a few key spots. Its rare with the galvanized bodies, but its better to be safe than sorry. The headlight surrounds tend to collect moisture, as does the rubber "smile" on the nose. Check for bubbeling which will push up the rubber.

5.) Talk with the owner. Some people abuse their cars, some pamper them - you should be able to tell which kind youre dealing with after a few minutes.

Maintenance is more the key than milage - if the car has been well cared for, at 145K Km, its just being broken in.

Good luck!

[GSpreeman]

I've got an '87 with 245,000 miles on it. From the records, it had a rebuild 18K miles ago as well as a clutch and a fork update on the clutch.

From what I've seen, these things really are bullet proof. It's hard to find anything that is consistently "wrong" with this model.

[Foss]

Thank's all for good info, it is most appreciated

I have checked most of the aspects mentioned here.
Also i got to see papers on a complete clutch change at 130000 Km so that should be sorted out.

The owner mentioned a few things about the car.
Appearantly these cars need change of gasket's (is it the right word?) and other "rubber parts" to prevent the engine for burning more oil than it should. He told me that the engine in certain temperatures ( i.e when cold) could have a bit of white exhaust indicating oil consumption. On a "normal" car this is an indication of warning... However 911's are supposed to burn more oil than watercooled cars. He also told me that there isn't anything wrong with this but that i should consider a complete change of all the gasket's etc. This would cost me about 2000$. (I dont live in the US so im not certain of the normal price over there but i guess they must dismantle the enginge for this job.) This should bring the engine back to almost "new" in condition. He also told me that the type of oil you use has influence on the oil consumption.

Anyone have any info on this?

Thx again.

Tore

[cellison]

All of the above is great advise. Only thing I can add is drive as many examples as possible before buying.

Charles
88 Cab

[88911coupe]

I think he is referring to the valve guides and/or valve stem seals. It will cause the car to burn more oil. Do a search for valve guide wear or top end rebuild and you'll find a lot of good info. A top end rebuild though will cost a bit more that $2K. It's hard to beat an 87 to 89 Carerra.
Later

[einreb]

I'd be interested to hear some more higher milage g50 3.2 owners chime in...

I have my eyes on a decent looking 88 with 113k miles. my only real fears are the high $ fixes. a top end reuild would not be a happy way to start out porsche ownership. I'm looking forward to the maintenance part, but am likely limited to brakes, oil changes... working my way up to a valve job. (i bought the 101 projects book before i've even bought a car... ).

understanding of the 3.2's is that the valve guides are prone to wear... what i don't understand is if it doesn't show up by a certain point... and the car is well maintained... are your valve guides 'safe'? and you won't be looking at a top end until 150k+?

i feel comfortable with a higher milage car, but the thought of quickly going out and paying an additional $5k (whats a top end cost?) makes me a little sick to my stomach...

Feel free to reassure me fellas

-bernie

[Stuttgart951]

Bernie - the 3.2L engines that suffered from the random valve guide wear would have had symptoms show up between 40K-60K miles - the issue would have also been fixed.

PS: Ill turn 100,000 miles on mine in another month or two.

[Rot 911]

I should be turning 130,000 miles on my '86 in the next day or so. However, I think I am due for a top end rebuild that I plan on doing myself next winter.

[nostatic]

if you're over 100K miles, I wouldn't call valve guide wear "premature"...it's just valve guide wear. A lot depends on the previous owners (remember, you're buying them too). Porsche says that burning 1 quart every 600 miles is within spec, but most here would probably consider that a lot of oil. A puff of smoke on startup is normal with these cars, and not a sure sign of imminent engine work. If it smoke beyond just startup, or smoke on deaccleration, then that's another story.

These cars are getting old, and they are expensive to fix. BUT, if you get a decent price they won't be depreciating much, so you pick your poison...pay now or pay later. If you get a good car (have a pre purchaase inspection done by a good independent Porsche specialist), $1500/yr should keep it running very well.

[einreb]

I want the required service of my future p-car to be perfectly staggered (sic?) to get increasingly more complex... oil change, brake job, valve job...

no 'drop engine' service required until i get a new 3 car garage.

Is that too much to ask?

[caliber60]

jazzbass has honest opinion.

[falcon]

Bought mine at 112K. Now has 122K with no problems. No previous major work or clutch change. I just calculated oil consumption. From highest mark on dipstick to lowest mark has been over 1000 miles. I use castro GTX and mobil 1. I only get white exhaust at cold startups.

[stealthn]

Foss,

Where are you located?

I'm not sure of the gasket thing you were mentioning, but if you can review all receipts (a good owner keeps good receipts) and get a Pre Purchase Inspection you will know what cost you could incure. All other comments good info., and check of brakes, rotors, exhaust, hoses. All the consumables can add up in cost. I would budget $2200 per year (CDN) for repairs. (If you don't spend it you can always use it for upgrades )

Look at alot before buying unless his one is immaculate.

[kepperly]

The 88 would be a great year for a driver and not too hard on the wallet. Clutch, valve guides, electrics. thats about the scope of things I've read about and besides oil changes, valve adustment,
new spark plug wire, rebuild brakes, new shocks , relocate the oil cooler, rewire the slant nose head lights, remove the stero "AMPS"
buff, polish, replace the front carpet. have one drivers side leather bolster replaced, replace the muffler, replace the fiberglass front
and rear bumpers, except for these small items, I have simply just enjoyed it for the last 8000miles including the 1800 mile trip back from Florida two years ago. Take your time you will know the right one when you find it, remember good now less money in the future.less now , more than you can imagine in the future, all on
'top' of those necessary improvements for your personal taste..
good luck.

Keith Epperly
Wichita Region
Porsche Club Of America
Membership Chair

[Foss]

I didn't go for the 88' Carrera..
I found a very nice 91' 964 C2
It was love at first sight
The car has 150k Km on its back and literrally looks brand new..
All services followed and it has the coil vent upgrade done.
Dunno about the flywheel though. Will check it at next service.

Cant wait to drive it home this weekend!!!

[911boost]

remember too, that if the oil consumption is not bad, and the car does not hemmorage oil onto your garage floor, $5K buys a bunch of oil.

My 86 has 102,000 and does not use oil ro drip it, so there are some out there.

Bill