The battery should have around 12.6v after charging, but before testing, make sure you drain off the false "surface charge" to get to the true electrical pressure capacity by applying a load for a few seconds.

Also, the voltage pressure the battery puts out while cranking is just as important. A good battery will have to keep putting out over 10volts continuously. Below 9.6v is junk, but batteries don't do well after 4-5 years anyways. I've been told most electronic systems these days won't fire the coil if the computer doesn't see 9volts from the battery.

Some US systems (mabye yours as well) will go into "clear flood" mode when you crank with the pedal on the floor. Injectors don't fire and a good way to air the cylinders.

It does sound like a starter problem but make sure the cables are tight and you getting oil pressure as well. If you can get one of those DVOM attachments that has an Amp pickup you can double check starter draw to specs (mabye 50-150 amps?).

Also, take it easy with the cranking- 10 seconds at a time max- or that tiny motor will get worn out.
Also, don't disconnect the battery cables while the engine is running or the alternator will fry and don't diconnect spark plug wires without grounding them or the coil/igniter will fry.

Decided against cables and just pulled the battery out fo the turbo. Same result. 30 seconds of cranking and it won't turn over any more.

I was pondering the idea that the motor was getting some sort of vapor lot in the cylinders, but just re-swapped batteries which took 20 minutes, and the motor did the same thing as before. 30 seconds of cranking...

I would double check what Kurt mentioned - make sure your timing is not too far advanced because this can cause slow and difficult cranking.

Chris, if you want to come by the house tonight, we can pull the starter off of my 3.0 for you to compare. I just can't get over there tonight, but I know you are going to keep at it until you are satisfied. Otherwise, I'll drive the 911 over there tomorrow afternoon.

I'm not getting enough spark to fire the motor, so it couldn't be advance yet.

I talked to my regular wrench who was discussing this with his guys because it was so "interesting". I hate having "interesting" problems.

SOANYWAY, the guys say "open armature", definitely. They'll drain batteries and apparently won't even heat up the starter motor while cranking. I'm buying a new starter... Hope this works.

Souk,

Might even have it tonight.... I'll let you know, but will definitely have the new one by tomorrow, so no need to pull yours off, thanks much though!

Awww MAN!

So now I'm relegating myself down to a "parts swapper" by changing the starter and because I couldn't fix it today AND I'm hurting my "rennaisance man racer" image?

Crud. Maybe I should just be one of those "arrive and drive" guys with Kelley Moss... (Now where DID I put that checkbook?) :D

I will prevail!!!!! :p

Starting Problem
 

Chris,
Have the started tested. I would bring it to an alternator/starter shop and have it bench tested. This way, you could eliminate the starter if it passed with flying color. Then concentrate on other posssible culprit/s for your starting problem. Good luck......

Chris one thing about doing a totaly thorough rebuild.. Is that you still have to overcome teething problems. Its frustrating, been there done that...

Ive never heard of the hpx failing like you've experienced..

Like you said the electromotive is a simple system usually bullet proof

One thing I have learned when faced with seemingly impossible problems. Is that you sometimes you have to remove yourself from the problem.. Your focus now is totally on getting your engine fired.

Go do other than Porsche things for a bit.....

Zen master Tim has spoken

(putting the asbestos overcoat on)

-->TimT http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/...shockwhore.gif Just kidding of course. :)

Well I've cooled of considerably since yesterday...

However, I have a new starter and HPX coming in the morning...

I'm pretty sure the starter is shot, based on a conversation I had via my friend/911 shop owner and a starter guy, he said an open armature would do exactly what I'm experiencing...

1) WOuld cause a big arc pulling in the starter motor, using a lot of current, but not really heating up the motor itself
2) WOuld lose turning torque because of above

On the HPX issue, I'm begining to wonder if the combination of marginal ground strap and the starter pulling big amps isn't related... EM replaced my base units the first time, but re-used the coils. They now theorize that a bad coil may be discharging through the unit chassis, and the convenient ground (by way of the tach pins) that it found destroys the base unit. They are going to run some tests on known good units as well as mine.

In the interim, to protect the unit circuitry we have run some additional ground and given any falsely discharging coil that might occur in the future a more convenient less destructive path to take. This may not help it run better, but should keep them from self-destructing.

Your advice is good, but I'm just not ready to let it go for a while yet. ;)

marginal ground?

Chris you need a substantial ground between the engine/tranny and the tub, and also between the alternator and the case.

Im sure you have all this covered, but step back and take a deep breath once in awhile.....

Youve already had your engine running for the 20 min cam wear in... so perhaps retrace any changes you have done since then?

Ill bet the fly in the ointment is something really simple..

Chris, you can take a break and help me install the new seatshttp://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/wat3.gif , 8AM Saturday :D I'll have Guinness http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/pint1.gif

A good way to get your mind off your problems...watch me screw up a simple thing like seat installation!

And if you ride the Duc over, we can blast up to Barrington before you have to do you husbandly duties.

Tim, I think the ground was always a problem, but the battery was much better charged that first time and may have had enough. I replaced the ground strap just to be sure, plus the starter seems to have gotten worse since that first time... I think it may have went downhill fast.

Honestly I think that's what happened. THe combination of the bad ground strap and a failing starter, hastened the demise, and I probably wasn't re-charging the battery fully, making it even more impotent. I had done nothing mechanical between the two times. (really)

I'll let everyone know how the new starter turns out.

Souk, it's gonna be 30 degrees on Saturday morning... I'm too much of a wimp for riding the bike in that. :) But I can definitely help. (Or at least take pleasure in supervising and hiding your tools while you do the work.)

Chris

We'll I guess 30 degrees is to cold to enjoy a ride. But I'm just going to dork around the garage until I have to head to Northstar, so if you feel like driving out here, you're welcome to come try and hide my tools (that doesn't sound good :( ). Maybe bring Esther out with you for a visit to the country :) We can coordinate tomorrow.