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-   Porsche 911 Technical Forum (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/)
-   -   Wheel alignment problems (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1030424-wheel-alignment-problems.html)

por86 05-25-2019 12:32 PM
My car sits 25 inches in the front and a little Jess than 25 in rear.

stlrj 05-25-2019 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackrash (Post 10470679)
FWIW, most will measure the distance from the wheel well, at the top, to the ground. Many will call 25.5" fr and 25" rear as "euro" height. This is not an accurate method, but it may give you a ball park as to how high your car sits.

BTW, I personally, could never make any sense out of the factory method. (flame suit on)
To be more precise, the factory method of measurement for euro height results in fender heights closer to 27-271/2" fender to ground. As an engineer, we are quite competent in converting inches to mm and are quite comfortable using the factory method resulting in camber settings in the zero range where they should be.



Cheers,

Joe

por86 05-26-2019 03:40 AM
My 86
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b7cfc25122.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

stlrj 05-26-2019 04:26 AM
Here is what a typical Carrera looks like at stock euro height before being lowered:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wnsgc (Post 3174948)
Greetings,

After searching thru the forum about ride height, I've found out the US road height for an 85 Carrera is:
Front: 26.5 inches
Back: 26.0 inches

Since my car looks a little bit on the high side, I decided to measure it up. My height is:
Front: 26.25 inches
Back: 25.75 inches

Here is a picture just to give you an idea:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1174589051.jpg

Technically I'm under the factory height. I'm about to install Bilsteins Shocks (non-Sports) and I've heard the height will be increased because of this, but it may settle back down after a while.

Questions:
- Why is the front lower than the back? Does it have something to do with more weight being in the back?
- If I want to lower the car height, it appears that lowering the front is straight-foward, as I just need to adjust the torsion bars, however the back is more invovled. Does it make sense to lower the front from 26.25 to 25.75, thus the front and back would be at the same height? Would this cause problems?

Thanks,
Scott

por86 05-26-2019 04:39 AM
Wow, I’m still in awe as to why the original owners of these beautiful cars thought that lowering the frame would improve its looks. I personally like my car to be 100% stock.

stlrj 05-26-2019 04:46 AM
I agree. We just happen to be in the minority.

Cheers,

Joe

mepstein 05-26-2019 04:48 AM
Some people see stock as the holy grail but Ferry Porsche and many of the Porsche family drove modified cars.

stlrj 05-26-2019 05:12 AM
You might say the turbo was a Porsche family driven modified 911:


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QExyFQ50bcc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Trackrash 05-26-2019 06:43 AM
On my car in the rear, A is 30 and B is 24. So does that mean I'm at -6?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlrj (Post 10470638)
Thanks to Bill Verburg:



If your tech can't figure out how to do these measurements, you will need to take it to someone who does.

Cheers,

Joe
EDIT: not sure why the table is not showing up. See post #18

stlrj 05-26-2019 06:56 AM
Here's a post I found of someone raising his Carrera back to factory European height:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/993439-raising-911-a.html

stlrj 05-26-2019 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackrash (Post 10471261)
On my car in the rear, A is 30 and B is 24. So does that mean I'm at -6?


EDIT: not sure why the table is not showing up. See post #18
What it means is that you are 22mm below factory European height since your resultant is a negative 6mm you need to add it to the 16mm spec.

Trackrash 05-26-2019 08:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlrj (Post 10471291)
What it means is that you are 22mm below factory European height since your resultant is a negative 6mm you need to add it to the 16mm spec.
Well, perhaps, but again, I can't make sense of this. If I am 22 mm below factory European height my fender measurement should be over 26" in the rear. Since as you mentioned in post #22 European height would have a rear fender height of 27". 27" minus 7/8" (22mm) is over 26".

However, my rear fender measures at 23 1/2". So what is causing this almost 3" (actually 67mm), discrepancy? What am I missing?

stlrj 05-26-2019 09:16 AM
I guess I was unclear. 27" was for the front suspension but the rear fenders are cut lower so they should measure roughly about 26". Regardless, you will still maintain a slightly nose down attitude.

I hope that makes sense.


Joe

Trackrash 05-26-2019 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlrj (Post 10471393)
I guess I was unclear. 27" was for the front suspension but the rear fenders are cut lower so they should measure roughly about 26". Regardless, you will still maintain a slightly nose down attitude.

I hope that makes sense.


Joe
Well, I just went out and jacked up my car so the center of the torsion bar was 142mm above the floor, since the center of my wheel is 130mm. That is the spec from what I read on the table.

Guess what. The fender was 27" above the ground.

It looked like a Dakar racer.

Back to the regular thread.

stlrj 05-26-2019 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackrash (Post 10471428)
Well, I just went out and jacked up my car so the center of the torsion bar was 142mm above the floor, since the center of my wheel is 130mm. That is the spec from what I read on the table.

Guess what. The fender was 27" above the ground.

It looked like a Dakar racer.

Back to the regular thread.
Well, guess what...that's the way they all started out before we got our hands on them!

By the way, they still look that way at the Porsche museum too. It just goes to show how comfortable we have gotten and how normal it seems when they all get lowered.

Hard to believe they left the factory that way isn't it?


Cheers,

Joe

stlrj 05-26-2019 12:56 PM
If you watch enough of these videos you might just get used to seeing them riding a bit higher:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2tESndnOUAk?start=33" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

HarryD 05-26-2019 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by por86 (Post 10471174)
Wow, I’m still in awe as to why the original owners of these beautiful cars thought that lowering the frame would improve its looks. I personally like my car to be 100% stock.
It is not about looks but about improvements to handling. A lowered car has a lower center of gravity which helps handling. The factory height is designed (in my opinion) to allow you to drive on poor quality roads without the car bottoming out. A common issue for any lowered car are ramps and bumps in the road.

If you look at track raced 911's, you will see they are very low. They can get away with this since the track is very smooth.

My car "evolved" as follows.

My '73 with 205/60-15's on 6x15 cookie cutters before lowering:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1123951504.jpg

My '73 with 205/60-15's and lowered:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1123951462.jpg

With 205/55-15's and lowered (did not like the speedo error):

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124845562.jpg[/

Current street setup of 205/55-16 on 16x6 Fuchs and further lowered
.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1257378612.jpg

Because of how lowered my car is, I needed to roll the fenders and install Turbo Torsion Bars. If you go with a more "normal" ride height, I doubt these changes would be needed.

stlrj 05-26-2019 07:21 PM
The title of this thread has to do with "Wheel Alignment Problems" and a lowered track car opens a whole new can of worms as you are aware of.

However, 911s as delivered from the factory seem to handle quite well:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3atfc8-1Bbk?start=4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

por86 05-30-2019 03:02 PM
Wheel alignment update
 
My car is now aligned and I found out that it had excessive tar around the upper mount that prevented it from moving. Gordon, you were right!!! Thanks

rolfjahn 05-30-2019 03:58 PM
Nice to know...great info


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