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Wheel alignment problems
My journey continues. My wheel alignment specialist could not get the front end cambers to adjust for my 86 Porsche. He loosened the bolts but still had no luck. Here are the numbers: Front:left. Camber actual minus 0.7 Before minus 0.9
Camber right actual minus 1.1, before minus 1.4 Cross camber front actual 0.4 before 0.4 Has anyone experienced this problem ? Need help! |
Is your car lowered?
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Very common. It can be because the car is very low, there is a bent strut, or the tar crap around the upper mount is preventing the upper mount to move as far as it should.
Almost forgot, worn or loose parts such as the strut inserts, wheel bearings, ball joints, or upper mounts, can cause this. I, and others, have enlarged the bolt holes for the upper mounts and removed the tar, to gain more adjustment. I had the same problem after I first got my car. Took it to a "specialist" and he could not get the camber where it should be. I asked him if my struts were OK and he said yes. A couple of weeks later, after my new front tires were cupping, I noticed one of my front strut inserts was so loose as to be knocking back and forth. YMMV |
Karl,car has never been lowered. The specialist didn’t remove any tar crap or try to loosen the rust with a torch. I don’t do any of my own work but did read that sometimes a torch is used to loosen the camber. I haven’t taken it yet to a Porsche specialist. The nearest one for me is in Greensboro North Carolina. I’m afraid to drive it 1 and one half hours with new front tires.
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In my experience, camber won't typically effect tire life significantly. Toe is what will cause rapid wear of your tires. if Toe is correct, I wouldn't have any reservation to drive 1-1/2 hours if it were mine.
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Here are my camber toe numbers: rear left, camber actual minus 0.9 before minus 1.0
Toe actual 0.15, before 0.12 Rear right: camber actual minus 2.2 before -2.2, tie actual 0.05 before 0.10 |
My SC is significantly lower than stock and running 1.3 degrees of negative camber. The wear after 20k miles is even across the tire and they're not feathered or cupped. As long as there's nothing else out of spec and no worn components, you should see great tire life.
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Shooo32, I might end up taking your advice. I purchased the car in 2005 and replaced the front tires in 2009. My rear tires are fine and it took 10 years for the fronts to wear out.
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No I’m not the original owner. I wish I was.
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Also, excessive negative camber is always the result of lowering and no car from the factory comes that way. An astute alignment technician should have measured the ride height (they should have the factory specs) before even attempting to align before wasting his time or yours. Cheers, Joe |
Joe, Maybe you or someone else on this forum can tell me what the original ride height is. My car is around 1.5 inches distance from the tire to body on the front and back. Also, I want to thank all those who have responded. Your knowledge is greatly appreciated!!
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One more detail. The technician did lift the front end after is was up on the wheel alignment machine. He still was unable to adjust the cambers.
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Gordon, The car will be seeing a mechanic on Tuesday. I will have him check out my dtruts and any loose or worn out parts. Specifically; wheel bearings,strut inserts, and ball joints.
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To be clear... the second wheel alignment specialist did know where the camber adjustments were located. He loosened the bolts but couldn’t budge the middle doowickee. I guess he tried a Hail Mary by placing pressure on the springs.
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Cheers, Joe |
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Cheers, Joe |
FWIW, most will measure the distance from the wheel well, at the top, to the ground. Many will call 25.5" fr and 25" rear as "euro" height. This is not an accurate method, but it may give you a ball park as to how high your car sits.
BTW, I personally, could never make any sense out of the factory method. (flame suit on) |
My car sits 25 inches in the front and a little Jess than 25 in rear.
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Cheers, Joe |
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Here is what a typical Carrera looks like at stock euro height before being lowered:
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Wow, I’m still in awe as to why the original owners of these beautiful cars thought that lowering the frame would improve its looks. I personally like my car to be 100% stock.
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I agree. We just happen to be in the minority.
Cheers, Joe |
Some people see stock as the holy grail but Ferry Porsche and many of the Porsche family drove modified cars.
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You might say the turbo was a Porsche family driven modified 911:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QExyFQ50bcc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
On my car in the rear, A is 30 and B is 24. So does that mean I'm at -6?
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Here's a post I found of someone raising his Carrera back to factory European height:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/993439-raising-911-a.html |
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However, my rear fender measures at 23 1/2". So what is causing this almost 3" (actually 67mm), discrepancy? What am I missing? |
I guess I was unclear. 27" was for the front suspension but the rear fenders are cut lower so they should measure roughly about 26". Regardless, you will still maintain a slightly nose down attitude.
I hope that makes sense. Joe |
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Guess what. The fender was 27" above the ground. It looked like a Dakar racer. Back to the regular thread. |
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By the way, they still look that way at the Porsche museum too. It just goes to show how comfortable we have gotten and how normal it seems when they all get lowered. Hard to believe they left the factory that way isn't it? Cheers, Joe |
If you watch enough of these videos you might just get used to seeing them riding a bit higher:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2tESndnOUAk?start=33" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
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If you look at track raced 911's, you will see they are very low. They can get away with this since the track is very smooth. My car "evolved" as follows. My '73 with 205/60-15's on 6x15 cookie cutters before lowering: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1123951504.jpg My '73 with 205/60-15's and lowered: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1123951462.jpg With 205/55-15's and lowered (did not like the speedo error): http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1124845562.jpg[/ Current street setup of 205/55-16 on 16x6 Fuchs and further lowered . http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1257378612.jpg Because of how lowered my car is, I needed to roll the fenders and install Turbo Torsion Bars. If you go with a more "normal" ride height, I doubt these changes would be needed. |
The title of this thread has to do with "Wheel Alignment Problems" and a lowered track car opens a whole new can of worms as you are aware of.
However, 911s as delivered from the factory seem to handle quite well: <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3atfc8-1Bbk?start=4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
Wheel alignment update
My car is now aligned and I found out that it had excessive tar around the upper mount that prevented it from moving. Gordon, you were right!!! Thanks
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Nice to know...great info
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