Looking for advice on Porsche 911 SC Purchase

[archaeofreak]

All, new member here!

I just looked at a 1979 Porsche 911 SC for possible purchase. I noted a couple things which concerned me, and I don't know enough about this car to know if it should. I have been reading and viewing 911s for about 20 years, always wanted one, but don't have direct hands on experience. Looking for clarification on the issues below, before deciding if I should pay for a PPI.

1. When shifting the RPM gauge would bounce all over the place. It appeared to me to be just the gauge not the RPMs of the engine. It would happen right after a shift. The owner said it was because he wasn't rev matching, but that didn't really make sense to me. It would bounce ~2k RPMs in either direction of where it would settle once in gear.

2. I am in Phoenix, AZ and it was about 98 degrees while test driving. The oil temperature was about 1/4 inch below the red mark. The owner said this was normal when hot, especially with the AC on, but it worried me a bit. He said to just slow down and not drive it too hard when this happens, and if it got too bad to turn off the AC and even turn on the heaters to blow heat into the cabin if really high. Seems suspicious to me. The AC didnt blow cold, but I know the ACs in this car suck.

3. The gearbox felt very sloppy, although he said he replaced the bushings recently. It didn't really have any issues going into gear, just felt pretty vague and loose in neutral. There was no tension to return the gear lever to neutral, rather it would stay in neutral or in between 1st and 2nd (meaning slightly to the left of center neutral unless pressed to where neutral should be).

4. It would sometimes die when started hot. He said this is normal for this car. It died about 3 times when he drove me around in it for the first 4 minutes or so, and he drove it to the location so it was at least warmed up. I didnt see it started cold. Is this correct?

According to the owner it has pop off valve, oil fed tensioners, a relatively new clutch, engine out service 4k miles ago, and is 28k with 115k miles.

Some details on the listing:

1979 911 SC, Targa, 114,000 miles, flat six 3.0

Repainted currently guards red, new vacuum advance, good Pirelli P7 rubber on Fuchs 205/55/16 front, 225/50/16 back wheels. No oil leaks (or very minor, it is a 911). Everything works including the air except for cruise, and that’s a new cable. Did the shift bushings. You can’t jam it into gear but it shifts fine.

Fixed passenger side mirror, completed toolkit, breather tube, oil cooler valve, has working and tested original spare, two way front strut brace, H4 euro ecode front headlight conversion, thermostat o-ring, handbrake, clock, motor mounts, fuse blocks, sun visors, rear wing grates, Pirellis, a new distributor and vacuum advance. Car had an engine out service about four thousand miles ago."

Owner seems friendly and honest.

Thanks for helping a noob guys!

[Sboxin]

79 SC - 115K miles -$28K (??)
Service records?
and always get a PPI on older Porsches from a shop that knows the older cars :

Don Jackson's in North Phoenix - Talk to DJ Jackson

https://donjacksonent.com/

Stuttgart Southwest in Tempe - Talk to Jack Doverspike (sp)

https://www.pcarshops.com/arizona/stuttgart-southwest


Regards,

[timmy2]

Hot start problems could be a few things, definitely not “normal”.
Fuel accumulator and fuel pump check valve can cause it among others.
Need to have a proper full fuel system test with gauge for cold start pressures, full system pressure, hot pressure and a timed pressure run down at a minimum.
All things mentioned can be repaired fairly easily with proper diagnostics.

[archaeofreak]

Hi Roy, He had reciepts but I didnt look through them. I know to get a PPI but I didnt want to pay unless I am seriously considering purchasing. ATM these issues I noted are worrying enough to me that I am not sure I want to pay for a PPI and proceed further. I talked to Patrick Motorsports in PHX already and they can do the PPI for $160 which seemed pretty reasonable. I read good things about them. Do you have any thoughts on the issues I outlined? Thanks for responding!

[archaeofreak]

Thanks for the comments Dennis! I didnt think they sounded normal, even living in PHX!

[Sboxin]

Originally Posted by archaeofreak

Hi Roy, He had reciepts but I didnt look through them. I know to get a PPI but I didnt want to pay unless I am seriously considering purchasing. ATM these issues I noted are worrying enough to me that I am not sure I want to pay for a PPI and proceed further. I talked to Patrick Motorsports in PHX already and they can do the PPI for $160 which seemed pretty reasonable. I read good things about them. Do you have any thoughts on the issues I outlined? Thanks for responding!

I'm not a big fan of Patrick - - unless you have money coming out your ears . . . Yes, they do very good work - but every now and then they have made mistakes . . .

I agree with Dennis about the stalling - but could be a minor repair . . . I would be more concerned about the cars engine/trans history which can be very costly . . .

The Tach needs some repair . . .

Shifting is just the way Porsches are . . . and its a learning process to get into the rhythm

The oil temp doesn't have to be that high - but it really is dependent on driving speed and stop and go traffic - and how clean the engine cylinder fins are . . . You might look up some of Reiver's comments on this Forum (lives in Wickenburg) - our race car with 3.8L air cooled has 3 oil coolers and we don't run in 100d days - the SC only has one cooler mounted on the engine . . .

All of these issues should be discussed with either DJ or Jack . . . they have been doing this work here in Phoenix for a very long time . . . maybe take the time to sit down with DJ and talk over your plans for an older Porsche . . .

I have a friend with a 72 911 and it doesn't get near the red line in 90 degree days . . .

If it were me I wouldn't pay $28K for this car . . . just sayin'

Regards,

[timmy2]

Tach swinging could be remote voltage regulator starting to fail.
Easy enough to test with a voltmeter for swinging voltage.
Or capacitors in tach.
SC has engine cooler and trombone cooler in front wheel well.

[archaeofreak]

Awesome, thanks for your insight Roy! He said he would take 27k, but no lower. I am going off the prices listed on bringatrailer auction results graph, and 27k is on the low end of the distribution, so it seemed reasonable, depending on the maintenance needs: https://bringatrailer.com/porsche/impact-bumper-911/

What do you think is the true value? Honestly, an air-cooled SC, 3.2 or 964 is my grail car, but my budget was 18-22k, which puts me in the 996 category these days, & which obviously has its own, & many issues....this was the only reasonable local air-cooled Porsche for sale, but if its another 5k (or more!) to get working correctly, I am well over any reasonable budget I would consider (let alone engine rebuilds at 15k or more)!. I am mechanically inclined and was planning on doing as much work as possible myself for fun, and keeping the car for the rest of my life, again, if possible (and barring unforeseen events). I figure I own a house, a Rolex (I am also a watch enthusiast), and a Porsche is the only other material item I ever wanted, once I get one, all my extra cash can go to retirement and material item maintenance (eg. house and porsche), haha!

I test drove an 87 G50 in 1999 which was for sale for maybe 16k (I was 19 then and that was way too much for me) and that is my only other hands on experience with an air-cooled porsche, but I don't remember any of the same negatives as test driving this example. I guess my fear is the Porsche bubble will keep growing and if I let this one go, Ill never be able to afford one! Anyway, thanks again for your insight, I appreciate it!

[archaeofreak]

Again thanks Dennis! Both fuel accummulator and voltage regulator seem like easy fixes. Maybe replacement of both these things, the addition of an oil cooler (or replacement of trombone with carrera?) and assuming the engine and tranny get signed off on by reputable PPI, and the SC may not be too bad of an example?

[Matt Monson]

Your budget for an air cooled 911 will not get you a car without needs. This car is both over your budget and has needs. Keep shopping, and if possible save up another $10k. You will need it to buy it or repair it. Driver SCs are $30k most of the time.

[Rodney Nelson]

my two cents....

1. Not normal for it to die... It could be a few things, as stated previously, nothing major but unless you are going to tackle it yourself you are going to have to pay to sort it out. So, add that to the price.
2. The price is good, but also note I think it has been for sale for a while on craigs list... why?
3. The sloppy shifting could easily be fixed with a short shift kit and new bushings, can you do it yourself?
4. Ask where he is currently getting it serviced, and call them.
5. I would be concerned that it has the issue with the tach and dieing, that tells me this guy is not maintaining the car at all. I mean at what point do you take your car in to get serviced?
6. I highly recommend Don Jackson, DJ is super skilled as he learned from his dad, wrenching on Porsches since he was a kid, not many can say they learned from their dad. However, Stuttgart has a very good rep locally.

Good Luck!

[nvr2mny]

Also consider Frank Beck at Beck’s European in Scottsdale. Knows aircooled like no one else I know.

[Rodney Nelson]

I take back my comment about it being listed on craigslist for awhile as I was thinking of another care. However, I did see an SC on craigslist right now at a small dealer at about 10K more, go test drive that one even if it is out of your budget to compare driving, temp, starting, cold, shifting, etc.

[archaeofreak]

Matt, understood. Your comments are spot on, yes its already over my budget. My budget is self imposed, a percentage of my net worth (maybe 10%) and cash availability (around 90k liquid). I guess its about how much liqudity do I really want to lock up in this. That budget (22k) was a 996 budget, this SC at just 5k over that budget was close enough that I wanted to consider it, as air-cooled is really what I want, but it is over, and does seem to have needs.

Great idea Rodney! More test drives of other examples is more than likely warranted, so I at least have some basis to compare. Yes it has been for sale on CG for awhile, and at 31k. It was recently lowered to 28k which is what caught my eye. As I said I am mechanically inclined, have lots of tools from working on my old motorcycle, a garage, and not afraid to at least try (it is from 1979 how complicated could it be lol). After all, its not my primary vehicle, and if I get in there and cant cope, then I would just pay what I would have paid in the first place (maybe a bit more)? Like I said, the seller said it has new bushings already, so if that's true, why does it still feel crappy? Is this normal 915 vs G50? Maybe something else? Its currently serviced by someone in Cave Creek, who has been servicing it since the mid 1990s when he and the car was in IL (he was the second owner, a mechanic who bought it for his ex-wife from a surgeon in IL but she never drove it for 16 yrs). Current owner is 3rd, and he has had it for 2 years, brought it back to life, wants it to go to a Porsche enthusiast, has turned down offers from collectors and anyone out of state.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by archaeofreak

2. I am in Phoenix, AZ and it was about 98 degrees while test driving. The oil temperature was about 1/4 inch below the red mark. The owner said this was normal when hot, especially with the AC on, but it worried me a bit.

Some reference shots in this thread
Post your temp gauges. Humid 90s.

[archaeofreak]

Thanks Sugarwood! None of these pics show anything close to the temp this SC was running at, at 98 in PHX! Definitely something off! It was midway between the top white bar and the red after about 1hr of driving on the interstate with AC running (poorly).

[sugarwood]

You could easily buy this car.
But, trust your gut.
You should be excited about your grail purchase, not scared.

Don't be tempted by a deal. Certainly not on your first car
"Cheapest Porsche you buy will be the most expensive Porsche you buy"

You have the right attitude towards hands on ownership
You can afford it.
Get a 911
Just not this one.

It just dies 4 times, and the owner says it's normal?
Owner is clueless.

RPM needle has not been fixed.
Owner doesn't care?

Gearbox feels weird? Test drive others.
Just removing it for inspection will cost you $2000
Earmark $5000 to get that fixed.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

Car has been painted?
Red flag for only 114k miles.

[archaeofreak]

Sugarwood, et al. more like 300k lol...what you are saying is hard to hear, but I think you are correct. Too many suspicious issues. That shifting looks so much firmer than what I experienced!! Not at all like this example. It would literally sit to the left of neutral between 1 and 2 and I would have to physically move it to center. Seemed odd then, obviously something wrong there. Depressing, but I guess I should wait it out and keep checking BaT for the next year....maybe the bubble will burst? He wanted 27k but in absolute all honestly I feel like it was a 12k car, even if that's absolutely not realistic with today prices, but I guess that's what a bubble means right? Thanks for everyones input I really appreciate all comments, and I do hope to purchase eventually and continue to participate here in the future!

[sugarwood]

"Buy the best example you can afford."

Don't get suckered by a cheap example that has a lot of question marks.
It will be more expensive in the long run.

When you find the right car, you will still have hesitation, but a lot less.

Forget BAT.
Keep scanning local CL ads.
That is where you can find a good car at a fair price.
Expand your search to 3-4 hours.

Get up 6am
Arrive at 10am
See car for 30 mins.
Get lunch.
Home by 4pm.

[sugarwood]

Go test drive this and compare the gearbox
https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ctd/d/tempe-1980-porsche-911-sc-targa/6891229419.html