R12 Shelf life

[theclaw]

I am thinking of getting my EPA 609 cert and service my A/C with original R12 that's still out there. Somebody on ebay is selling stuff he's had stored for 15years. There are no bids for it yet and the auction ends soon. Does it have a shelf life? Should I run?

Thanks,
Jeff

[Scott R]

I have never heard any data from Dupoont on that, however I have a 12 year old 30lb cylinder, in fact several that are just fine. I charged my usual five or so cars this summer with them. I'm sure it has one, just not sure what it is.

Also remember that Napa sells R12 with a valid license for around $25 a can.

[dmarv]

I currently sell R-12 in my auto parts store. The only problems I have ever seen with R-12 and long term storage are these:

1) The cans can sometimes develop small leaks and the refrigerant will escape.

2) If the R-12 was mixed with the old style (red) dye, after long term storage the dye will settle and no longer be suspended in the R-12. When you go to use the refrigerant, the dye will clog the charging valve on the hose or the valve in the low side charging fitting. When is happens the can is no good because the dye cannot be remixed.

These are the only two problems I have seen over the last 25 years. I say use it!!

[Steve87-911]

My father in law brought over a 10 yr. old tank of R12 a couple weeks ago. He recharged my A/C and I'm sure glad he did. It kept me cool on a rare hot/sticky day last week.

[911pcars]

Ebay? Risky to buy refrig. "Hey it was full when I sent it." Unless local, sending it via the usual sources may also be difficult.

There's always a chance the tank may be contaminated with something else besides R-12 (e.g. Duracool, leak-detecting dye, HC134a, water, etc.). Pros should use a refrigerant identifying machine before they connect their recycling machine to a system to prevent contaminating their equipment. So should you. But if you're going to use this on your own cars, you do what you want.

Sherwood

[Scott R]

Good point, on "unknown" R12 I will take it to a local AC shop that I use and have them clean it up by running it though their recycling machine, I think they charghed me $10 bucks last time I did it for 30lbs.

Too bad you're not in Denver, I recharge for $5/lb on R12.

[Joeaksa]

Good thread and information.

Joe A

[ruf-porsche]

If the r12 is still in an unopen 12 or 16 oz can it is probably still good. You can tell by holding a 12 or 16 oz can of r12 if it is full or empty.

[wholberg]

From a chemical standpoint, R-12, or chlorofluorocarbons, persist in the ozone layer for 50-100 years. If still in a sealed container that does not leak, R-12 is probably stable for thousands of years. The dye problem mentioned above by Dmarv would be one of two possible problems. The other possible problem might be oil that was suspended with the R-12. I expect it would act like the dye if it went bad.

[Tim H]

Originally Posted by Scott R

Good point, on "unknown" R12 I will take it to a local AC shop that I use and have them clean it up by running it though their recycling machine, I think they charghed me $10 bucks last time I did it for 30lbs.

Too bad you're not in Denver, I recharge for $5/lb on R12.

Scott, what shop in Denver did you get your R12 recharge at?

[macssc911]

Will last forever

[darrin]

Originally Posted by Tim H

Scott, what shop in Denver did you get your R12 recharge at?

tim -- scott's post was from fourteen years ago -- but would be psyched to find out that r12 was still available around here for anywhere near $5 a pound . . .

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by macssc911

Will last forever

Incorrect.

R12 has a half life of under fifty years for the active ingredient.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Incorrect.

R12 has a half life of under fifty years for the active ingredient.

I can't argue the point, but do you have a reference point for that fact? Is is something from DuPont, or some government site?

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I can't argue the point, but do you have a reference point for that fact? Is is something from DuPont, or some government site?

I remember that from when I was studying for the 609 test. Mind you, that was in 1998.

I did find a website today that said the "life" of R-12 is 102 years.

See paragraph right under The Refrigeration Cycle diagram.

https://www.wou.edu/~avorder/Refrigeration.htm

[GH85Carrera]

Interesting. Off course they had to guess, unless they tested it after 102 years. It would be interesting in the mid 2070s to see if the R12 is still ok.

[hienz]

I got some R-12 cans. If someone like to buy $20 each.
I bought whole case to recharge my 92 964 and still good now.

[Koizumi]

Just use es-12a and call it a day. Colder than r12 and less pressure on the compressor

[Coastr]

So this is a 14 year old post.

Probably time to think about converting to another refrigerant if you still have r12! Apart from availability if you want to sell some people might not want an r12 car.

[911pcars]

Converting from R12 to HC134a requires more than a flush and recharge. Systems hoses for one aren't compatible and must be upgraded. R12, while no longer manufactured is still readily available. IMHO, 911 owners are more concerned with the condition of the basic vehicle, but a working and efficient HVAC system is a plus for sure.

Sherwood