Fuel Injector Sleeves

[TracyC]

Any pointers in removing the fuel injector sleeves with the engine still in the car? I am needing to replace the o'rings and a couple of the sleeves came out with the injectors and the others only the injector came out while trying to remove them.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance for any and all help.

[Flojo]

as I feared that the (maybe) brittle material may crumble into the cylinder, I dismantled everything so I had every intake as single in front of me to drive the sleeves out.

[7783911]

do as flojo suggests, i tried in situ and the brittle sleeves came apart....not good...luckily i was planning a top end rebuild anyways :-)

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by TracyC

Any pointers in removing the fuel injector sleeves with the engine still in the car? I am needing to replace the o'rings and a couple of the sleeves came out with the injectors and the others only the injector came out while trying to remove them.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance for any and all help.

The best way to work on your CIS is have the motor out. But many are worried and reluctant to do an engine drop. So for those people who wanted to tackle this job in situ, follow these:
1). Disconnect the fuel line to the fuel injector and leave the injector on.
2). Find out if the sleeve slides out when you pull out the injector. Sometimes they are already loose and leaking.
3). Make sure the cylinder you are working is @ TDC. Why? You want the valves closed because of the debris you will create removing the injector sleeve. You don’t want the carbon deposit or pieces of the sleeve to get wedge between the valve seat and valve. Grind off the three stake marks on the intake runner and cover the hole to prevent the debris from getting in the motor.
4). After the removal of the stake marks on the intake runner, install a new injector o-ring and an injector. Pull the assembly out. Most of the time, the sleeve slides out as long as you have removed the stake marks. Sometime you will see that some sleeves come out even with the stake marks untouched.
5). In rare cases do you need to build a special puller. The fuel injector with new o-ring is tight enough to get out these sleeves.
6). A borescope attachment to your telephone (camera) will be a very useful tool for inspection of the chamber for any debris that might have fallen down. A flexible suction tube could pick up any dirt or debris.

Stake marks removal and @ TDC are two important criteria you can not ignore. Keep us posted.

Tony

[RDM]

If, after reading Tony's description, you still try to do it in place you're nuts. The steps he list require precision, and access is poor especially number 6.

You can pull the entire CIS with a partial engine drop, especially if you've already cleared out some things (back-dated heat, A/C removal, etc.). That said, a full drop is probably most straightforward and most conducive to a quality job.

[OsoMoore]

For my SC I stripped everything including the headers without dropping the engine. Just take your time and disassemble carefully in place. Start at the top and take apart the CIS, working your way down. You'll learn a lot about the car and it is a great time to repair and clean things.
Once the intakes are off, you can easily remove the sleeves by punching them out from inside.
Stalled after Dizzy Cleanup, Won't Start

Good luck!

[Reiver]

Simple technique for me....if they remain in place when I pull the injectors they stay there until a major/motor out deal....if they are tight they won't leak.
If they come out with the injector then replace them.....

[mike sampsel]

Originally Posted by TracyC

Any pointers in removing the fuel injector sleeves with the engine still in the car? I am needing to replace the o'rings and a couple of the sleeves came out with the injectors and the others only the injector came out while trying to remove them.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance for any and all help.

Having pulled the CIS in situ and after pulling the engine, I have moved to the pull the engine group to do the CIS work (although I have not yet installed same engine).
How do you know the o-rings on the sleeves are bad (ha ha ...) mine '78 were very brittle just last week.

If you remove the CIS to do this (or just each intake runner another challenge), you can drive the sleeves out from behind with an old injector. Then dremel out the stakes for insertion post new o-ring. Restake after insertion. I found dremeling out the stake marks after the sleeve was removed to be a lot easier (intake runner in hand here).

+ 1 on the borescope idea, they take some great photos and wifi with mine to iphone; if you are guttsy enough to attempt this in situ. Still the borescope camera is quite handy for this hobby.

If you do pull the CIS in situ, the install is not as simple as you might like, be careful as it can hang up and you might crack your airbox by forcing things too much.

As stated by RDM, number 6 in situ is a real pain, guess #6 could wait (for an engine pull) if you decide to go the ("your nuts" method) and extract while all runners in situ.

Consider:

Replace the o-rings on the "easy pull out sleeves" and all the injector o-rings. Then see if you have a serious enough vacuum leak to worry about and if so, determine what else to fix when you or someone else drops the engine. You might find it is okay for a while, if you close shut off the idle speed throttle (turn the screw in with the car running) and the car dies from lack of air, your good (according the the Porsche CIS troubleshooter)

[RDM]

Originally Posted by Reiver

Simple technique for me....if they remain in place when I pull the injectors they stay there until a major/motor out deal....if they are tight they won't leak.
If they come out with the injector then replace them.....

The fact the sleeve doesn't come out doesn't mean it is providing an airtight seal with the intake runner. It may just be held in mechanically, by the staking (which is what the staking was designed to do, right?).

When I pulled my injectors on the bench, none of the sleeves came out. But once I de-staked them and pulled them, all the sleeve seals were hard as rocks and shrunken past usefulness.