Is this possible?

[LatinPorsche911]

Well I have been dealing with my prior issues with this car: (1989 911, 3.2)

I am losing my patience with this engine!!!!

Finally done with replacing the FPR which was bad (gasoline was going through the vacuum hose into the engine). In the process, apparently the starter went bad... just would not crank. Tested the starter underneath by bridging the poles (as understood in forum post), it just did the clunk sound but nothing more. Replaced starter with hi torque one. Installed it. Cleaned ground cable near tranny, the negative cable (of battery) looks clean (will clean that just in case today).
So far things replaced during this ordeal:
Fuel pump
Fuel filter
DME relay
oxygen sensor
CHT sensor
Both the speed and reference sensor

And don't know if all that works because it just doesn't want to start... no crank. the same CLUNK sound.. thought maybe ignition switch so tested below again by bridging and Clunk.

I read in some post about the possibility of somehow the (not sure about the correct terminology here) but the teeth of the starter is not fully engaging with that of the transmission. That the engine should be moved again in order to correctly engage in. I have turned the bolt of the fan and I guess the belt is lose so will replace that... its probably time anyways. I cant seem to get a good grip on the bottom pulley bolt.. so not sure how to do that..

So I thought of putting it in gear and turn the wheels... but no matter what gear I put it in... 1 to 5 and Reverse... the wheels just spin freely... ???? what the heck?

I have always been under the impression that if you put it in gear it should lock in the wheels with the tranny.
The car is up, on supports. So I just don't know what else to do... This is beyond annoying and frustrating but I am learning, from those who contacted me and replied to my previous post... to just be patient.. walk away, take a breather and come back... so I'm in that phase now...
Just hoping that someone can enlighten me with why it doesn't lock in the wheels with the tranny and what else can I check in regards to why it doesn't start.

What am I missing still??? I am guessing that if there is current coming in to the red or yellow wire, then it should be ok... Battery... I have taken it twice to Walmart people and they have said its good.. 12.something volts... so assuming that its ok or good enough to start it.

Thanks honestly and best to each one

R

[RWebb]

no crank??

many of the things you replaced are not involved in that

[LatinPorsche911]

Starter wont turn...

The things I've changed were due to previous issue of irratic idling and then not starting at all unless pressing gas pedal all the way down and then it just burned richly.

But issue now is that new starter doesnt turn.

[pete3799]

Does the motor turn by hand? Take the plugs out and try cranking it over. Might be hydrolocked.

[dannobee]

I second the hydrolocked possibility. Especially if the regulator has a hole in the diaphragm and filled up the intake.

Remove the spark plugs and carefully and slowly rotate the engine over by hand and see if fuel starts spilling out of the spark plug holes. Whatever you do, don't hit the starter without disabling the fuel pump relay and the ignition, otherwise it could catch on fire. Have a fire extinguisher handy just in case.

[piscator]

Hi Latin,

You were having battery problems which made it seem possible that the starter wasn't cranking due to low voltage. Did you get the battery charger you mentioned or have the battery load tested as we discussed? You were considering a new battery, but it's not on the list. Did you get one?

Also, there was some question as to whether you made a solid connection when you bridged the starter motor terminals with a screwdriver. We talked about a remote start switch and retesting. Did you retest? Or are you referring to your first test here?

As Pete suggests, turning the engine over with the spark plugs removed might be a good idea. You have to remove the spark plugs to release the engine's compression. I don't think you can turn the motor over with the fan pulley nut. You have to turn the crankshaft nut.

If you still haven't eliminated the battery as the possible culprit, it would be good to do that before moving on to something else.

Best of luck and stay calm!

[RWebb]

does the solenoid click?

does the starter move at all when energized (need a hand on it to test)

but could be hydrolocked and easy to check

[john walker's workshop]

Is the yellow wire on the ignition switch loom cut and run through an alarm module? Possible voltage loss from that. Been there, seen that.

[LatinPorsche911]

Hello to all who have posted their helpful comments and suggestions

I did use a remote start switch for the older starter and newer one. Same sounds as when I used the key ignition. I assumed that the new starter was in good working condition so did not bench test the starter.


After I typed my last post... I decided to have another wack at this car. As I stated, I decided to remove the ground cable that connects to the battery. I thought it was ok.. seemed shiny... but this time I went ahead and cleaned all the connections and tighten up the cable... seemed that in time it had unwind a bit. Turned the ignition key and this time it was a bit more than just a clunk... as if it wanted to but then died. So wondered if the battery is low

I charged the batter by itself, I had been told that the battery was good (even though I still have my doubts) so charged it more (already had that slow battery charger going previously). Cleaned the positive battery connection and such

Put it all back in place and turned the ignition... and wala… the starter turned or wanted to turn or something.. there was some crazy sound... but did not turn the engine. As if the starter was hitting something or ???? not sure

Tomorrow I will go ahead and remove the plugs and turn the engine. The last time that I ran the fuel pump with the older FPR was like 2 - 3 weeks ago... I assumed all gas in engine and vacuum lines had evaporated. But if its hydrolocked.. I will do what you guys suggest.

My question is this now... how do I turn the engine at the crankshaft nut? Its super tight in there.. barely can get a wrench there but no room to turn? Must I remove the plate at the bottom to allow more space?

Thanks again to you all for your time and help
best
R

ps.... I have had my suspicion with the alarm system... but have been told to resolve all the other issues that I had previously. But something keeps bugging me about that alarm.. its been so long since I last heard it engaged (blare its crazy noise) and I know for a fact that if the driver door opens way too much it engages the lock mechanism... which I have to unlock it with the key... but that doesn't always open or unlocks them completely... I have to manually turn it to move all the way upwards. So maybe.. but will see what happens after this hydrolocking issue

[proporsche]

to turn the engine you do not need to remove the plugs.Apply pressure on the alt.belt on the side with one hand (if it is loose) and with the other turn your 24 nut on the alternator.This will turn the engine.Also after adjust the belt.
I wonder if your starter is stuck on the starter ring??

Ivan

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by LatinPorsche911

Finally done with replacing the FPR which was bad (gasoline was going through the vacuum hose into the engine).

Pull the plugs as has been said here several times, it's not beyond the realm of possibility you have filled a cylinder with gasoline.. if you find this is true be sure to change the oil as it's most likely contaminated too.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by LatinPorsche911

Well I have been dealing with my prior issues with this car: (1989 911, 3.2)

I am losing my patience with this engine!!!!

Finally done with replacing the FPR which was bad (gasoline was going through the vacuum hose into the engine). In the process, apparently the starter went bad... just would not crank. Tested the starter underneath by bridging the poles (as understood in forum post), it just did the clunk sound but nothing more. Replaced starter with hi torque one. Installed it. Cleaned ground cable near tranny, the negative cable (of battery) looks clean (will clean that just in case today).
So far things replaced during this ordeal:
Fuel pump
Fuel filter
DME relay
oxygen sensor
CHT sensor
Both the speed and reference sensor

And don't know if all that works because it just doesn't want to start... no crank. the same CLUNK sound.. thought maybe ignition switch so tested below again by bridging and Clunk.

I read in some post about the possibility of somehow the (not sure about the correct terminology here) but the teeth of the starter is not fully engaging with that of the transmission. That the engine should be moved again in order to correctly engage in. I have turned the bolt of the fan and I guess the belt is lose so will replace that... its probably time anyways. I cant seem to get a good grip on the bottom pulley bolt.. so not sure how to do that..

So I thought of putting it in gear and turn the wheels... but no matter what gear I put it in... 1 to 5 and Reverse... the wheels just spin freely... ???? what the heck?

I have always been under the impression that if you put it in gear it should lock in the wheels with the tranny.
The car is up, on supports. So I just don't know what else to do... This is beyond annoying and frustrating but I am learning, from those who contacted me and replied to my previous post... to just be patient.. walk away, take a breather and come back... so I'm in that phase now...
Just hoping that someone can enlighten me with why it doesn't lock in the wheels with the tranny and what else can I check in regards to why it doesn't start.

What am I missing still??? I am guessing that if there is current coming in to the red or yellow wire, then it should be ok... Battery... I have taken it twice to Walmart people and they have said its good.. 12.something volts... so assuming that its ok or good enough to start it.

Thanks honestly and best to each one

R

Yeah... that's definitely not right. If the clutch pedal is released the wheels shouldn't turn freely with the transmission in gear.
As for the starter, make sure your battery is good. Make sure you're getting 12 volts at the yellow wire on the starter solenoid. Make sure there is nothing obstructing the starter bendix inside the transmission housing (yeah I actually had that happen)

On the battery, I'm assuming they're doing a load test and not just a voltage test? A battery can have 12 volts but when put under load it will drop way off.

Go to the last post in this thread. Starter would sometimes turn, other times click, and others do absolutely nothing. I changed the starter to a known working starter... same thing..
Intermittent Starter issue Starter spins but not engaging

[76FJ55]

Originally Posted by LatinPorsche911

So I thought of putting it in gear and turn the wheels... but no matter what gear I put it in... 1 to 5 and Reverse... the wheels just spin freely... ???? what the heck?

I have always been under the impression that if you put it in gear it should lock in the wheels with the tranny.
The car is up, on supports.

R

I believe that you are getting it into gear correctly, but since the car is up on stands when you turn one wheel the wheel on the opposite side rotates in the opposite direction. This is the function of the differential. Putting the car in gear will connect the pinion gear to the crankshaft, which will effectively stop the differential carrier from rotating, however with an open differential the spider gears may still rotate. In order for one spider gear to rotate the gear on the opposite side must rotate in the opposite direction. If you block one wheel from rotating you will see that you can no longer freely rotate the opposite wheel with the transmission in gear unless you apply enough force to rotate the engine.

[piscator]

Good Morning Latin,

Congratulations on making progress with the ground wire! I know it’s hard not to get frustrated, but don’t worry you’ll get there! Particularly with the great advice you’re getting here! Towit:

If Ivan says you can rotate the engine from the fan pulley then you absolutely can! And while Ivan is my current Porsche hero, I’d follow Gary’s advice and pull the plugs to rotate the engine. It’s probably not a big deal either way.

It’s fine to rotate the engine and eliminate that variable, but please follow Nick’s advice and load test the battery. It’s good that you got the trickle charger, but as Nick says, a charged battery indicating 12v on a meter may still drop way below that when connected to a load – like your starter motor.

If you’ve already load-tested the battery, let us know so we get that out of the way. If you haven’t load-tested the battery, that should be your first priority. You need to eliminate the simple stuff first.

The clicking, clacking, thumping you’re hearing sounds (to me) like the starter trying to turn. Ivan may be right that the starter is stuck, but the more likely (or more typical) cause for this is loose or dirty connectors, a bad battery, or both.

Make sure all your connectors to the starter solenoid, like the yellow wire John mentions, are clean and tight. Double check the positive and negative battery connections. If you have multiple wires on the positive side make sure all those connectors are clean.

You’ll have more confidence once you know, for certain, that the battery and connections are not to blame. The other possibility is that you’ll find the loose or dirty connection and the engine will fire right up! Let’s hope!

[T77911S]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

Is the yellow wire on the ignition switch loom cut and run through an alarm module? Possible voltage loss from that. Been there, seen that.

YES!!!

after market car alarms suck!!

I always tell people if you insist on a car alarm, DO NOT cut the start wire. there are other ways or just put the alarm in for the noise.

I use to do auto electric work for a living, they were a good money maker.

[john walker's workshop]

Nobody listens to alarms anyway, so use a toggle switch to kill the fuel pump relay.

[proporsche]

i do have a feeling he has a factory alarm in his 1989 Carrera...

Ivan

[gearby]

Here's my two cents , and it may not even be worth that but Once you've load tested your battery to confirm it has the cranking amps you need , Get underneath the car and have somebody turn it over , go to the starter and check to see if you have 12 volts coming into the solenoid from the ignition. If you do, use long jumper cables in place of the negative cable. Don't remove the negative cable just hook the jumpers on to it and find a good grounding spot on the chassis somewhere. Just because a cable looks good and it's clean doesn't mean it is good. I don't know if you have room to connect the positive cable to the solenoid where the battery lead comes in, but if you do connect it there and then connect it to the positive on the battery. Battery cables are virtually impossible to load test. This is about the only way I know of without expensive equipment. A resistance test won't tell you anything about the cable. If you have one tiny wire making contact you will produce 0 ohms, but you definitely can't flow enough power through that to start a car. Bad cables are one of the hardest thing to detect.

[LatinPorsche911]

Hi again

Ok.. so took out all the spark plugs and wondered how to turn the engine. I was not able to turn it with the belt... it was just sliding away (guessing its time to change that one as well - to took it out and waiting for new one).
Then tried turning it with both hands.... barely nudged... it feels quite tight. Then used a 17mm wrench as best as I could in the slotted space... used another wrench (the old school way) to turn it... could move much due to the decklid locking mechanism... the little bolt stuck out.
But was able to move the engine maybe about an eight of a turn... it felt tight.... then I heard this somewhat loud metal bang. I was at first disgusted thinking that maybe I broke something... a rod or who knows what... I truly hope I didn't mess something inside!!!!

So I decided to not continue... I decided to use another method that I read here in one of the post... to put it on 5th gear and gently push it... so did that, swaying it back and forth a bit and pushing it forward... did not hear any other noise... the engine moved slowly... but probably pushed car like 3 feet or so due to garage space. Then pushed it back.... and I called it quit... its hot day here.

How much should the engine turn? Is there supposedly some gas that should spill out or is it just to get the engine to move a bit?
I left the plugs out for the night, maybe have air circulate and allow some evaporation. noticed that most if not all of the plugs smelled like gasoline. So cleaned them all.

will do a load test on the battery tomorrow...
Thanks again to everyone's help and time
best
R

ps.. I believe the alarm is a factory one. But do recall when I had recently purchased the car... there was one time that the door locked on me and I was not able to start it until I made sure I unlocked the doors. This happened twice... But then it never happened again... maybe the alarm system has given up and not functioning... ;o)

[76FJ55]

Ideally you would turn the engine through 2 full revolutions by hand. this will ensure that every cylinder has passed through its compression stroke without running into any mechanical or hydraulic interference. this can be done by pushing the car forward in 5th, then putting it in neutral and rolling it back then back into 5th and push it forward again. Repeat until you have turned the engine through 2 revs. with the plugs out you may be able to push it in a lower gear which will turn the engine more for any given distance you roll it.