bosch twin plug rotor? - Page 4

CamB · CamB's Garage

I've got an older MoTeC (the 3D). As per usual, I'll use this as an opportunity to post a pic - LOL - shameless self-promotion. I actually got a pretty good deal on the 98mm P&C, but they were still pricey (especially in NZ$).

Hmmm, its dirtier than when I took that photo. I still haven't got an electrical console cover either.... I am so lazy. Actually, I've only driven it about 200 miles since then.

Porschedude · 06:20 PM

Another problem with the C2 Distributor is that there is no advance/retard slot to make the adjustments in timing. The C2 uses the Motronic and the flywheel triggered Hall effect transducer to time the ignition. I suppose on could machine a slot like the SC and earlier engines have, but you wouldn’t get much of a swing since the driven distributor hangs out so far.

Keith

CamB · CamB's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Porschedude
Another problem with the C2 Distributor is that there is no advance/retard slot to make the adjustments in timing. The C2 uses the Motronic and the flywheel triggered Hall effect transducer to time the ignition. I suppose on could machine a slot like the SC and earlier engines have, but you wouldn’t get much of a swing since the driven distributor hangs out so far.

Keith

Yeah, that's why mine took so many goes to get the optical trigger in the right place. They kept stuffing it up.

(edit) - whoops, I caught what you wrote and replied. It is correct, yes? I'll delete it if you like.

Tinker · 03-26-2003, 05:03 PM

CamB,

Drooling!

Looks nice. I am also interested in an economical (?) twin plug setup for a 2.7 mechanical motor I am building. Already have all the pieces including high compression pistons. Was planning on a race gas diet, primarily a track car, but I am thinking of sending the heads back to add a second plug opening. Didn't someone post a company that sells a 964 set up with the coils/cd boxes for $1,600 US$??? Might have seen that in Pano or Excelence??? The twin plug dist. are too expensive and the electromotive (sp?) are problematic, from what I have heard.

I have S cams, but thinking of going to a more aggresive 906 or custom grind.

Tinker

rs911t · 03-26-2003, 05:47 PM

JMZ - they're 40's with 34mm venturis. I have a 6-pack of new 36mm PMO venturis I'm not going to use anytime soon, if you're interested.

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

Tinker, there's a company advertising in Pano called iSystems with this. It uses permatune units. I called them a few days ago and did not get a particularly postive feeling about them. First they answered the phone with another companies name. The guy that I talked to did not think that my SC distributor was needed as a donor to modify the 964 distributor. (Steve Weiner seems to think it does, and I'm MUCH more inclined to believe him.) They also require you to send them the 964 distributor and made no mention of refreshing it, checking the belt, etc... which of course should be done.

I have NO concrete reason to suspect anything other than a "hunch" but definitely got a more thorough answer from Rennsport who sells the same system with MSD's. (though for more $)

Porschedude · 03-26-2003, 06:21 PM

CamB,

I started my post before you made yours and thought I would retract mine, since a succesful picture tell most of the story and it took out any punch I had in my comment.
Keith

CamB · CamB's Garage

Yeah - but you're totally right! And it is still a problem (just not one I face).

Tinker · 03-26-2003, 07:40 PM

Chris,

Yes your right, that`s the company. Looked like a nice product in the ad, but I am no fan of the Permagloom products. Bosch is a better CD box.

I`ll defer to your thought on the company. Still interested in a good solution. I realize it won`t be cheap, but if its a good/reliable system, I`d be willing to spend the money.

Tinker

garrickl · garrickl's Garage

If anyone is looking for these parts .... I have a used Electromotive HPV1 twin coil pack setup for twin plug and a 964 distributor with complete plug wire set. I decided to go DTA engine management systems and will not need either of these twin plug systems.

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

Tinker your best bets for twin ignition then are 1. REnnsports 964 conversion 2.Electromotive HPX or Tec3 3. Link Engine Mgmt system, 4. other electronic systems that can drive coils like TimT is using.

Randy Webb · 03-27-2003, 09:57 AM

What about the Motec? Some like them better than Electromotive.

Also, if you look at Steve Wiener's Rennsport web page he states that you can't use wide plug gaps for more power without a distributor set up. So that would would favor those over the computerized stuff.

TRE Cup · TRE Cup's Garage

FWIW- the early Magnetti rotor is NOT the same as the Bosch rotor for this application and it cannot be made to work. I found a new Magnetti rotor and used cap, for those of you with the need for it. Send me a pm for price

CamB · CamB's Garage

What about the Motec? Some like them better than Electromotive.

Electromotive is cheap compared to MoTeC. There are heaps of options, all pretty much offering the same sort of thing.

At least as important is probably finding something your dyno guy is comfortable and experienced in tuning.

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

Randy, I read that as well, but electromotive claims that a plug gap of up to .060 is possible.

Perma-Tune Lab · 03-28-2003, 07:50 AM

HI,

The single plug y wire configuration will not work due to the fact that the current will follow the path of least resistance. Since it is virtually impossible to exactly match impedance in both spark plug circuits, the current will flow to only one spark plug.

A single trigger source is good because it will trigger both ignitions at the same time. This allows for the possibility of having two flame fronts. I say possibility because most ignitions will not follow the command signal exactly, especially inductive type ignitions.

About the I Systems twin plug system:

The I Systems twin plug is a collaboration between I Systems and Perma-Tune. We make special Plasma Ignitions that use the sensor that is already inside the 993/964 distributor. I Systems makes the modifications to the distributor to produce six pulses per revolution and sets up the advance curve. The old SC distributor parts are not needed because we use the sensor that is already in the distributor. These distributors are completely rebuilt with top quality parts including of course a new belt. New distributors are available if you do not have a core distributor to send I Systems. This system is available for 2.7L, 3.0L and as a stand alone system for 964 and 993.

BTW, Levon Pentecost usually answers the phone with his name at I Systems on the occasions that he answers the phone himself.

Lonnie

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

Lonnie,

Good info, thanks. Levon mentioned that you worked together on this. ...perhaps he did answer with his name and I misunderstood.

Question then as long as you're here... How do you account for the difference in the distributor gears in the various motors?

Sp the distributor is completely refurbished, does this include the air tube update?

Randy Webb · 03-28-2003, 10:06 AM

So how much does the I systems ignition cost?

Perma-Tune Lab · 03-28-2003, 10:46 AM

Hi,

Levon sets up the gearing for you when you order the unit. On some cars, like the 2.7L and some turbo engines, the distributor turns the opposite direction from the other engines. This requires that the crankshaft gear be changed to accommodate the distributor. Since changing the gear involves splitting the crankcase, this kind of thing is done during a rebuild when it is a good idea to replace the worn out gear anyway.

The distributor refurbish does include the updates.

As far as pricing goes, there are so many different configurations that you will need to contact Levon. His number is (904) 287 0003. He also offers the system with a rev limiter and pre amp if you so desire.

Lonnie