How loud are headers really? Plus bonus intro and pics
 

Question:
Can they be used on a daily? I drive mine all the time but I love the loud sound and can live with it, it’s more an issue of if the neighbors can live with it?

More detail:
I’m back in the 911 game and going through upgrades. Considering headers/M&K or similar option for power and weight savings. According to a chart Steve Wong posted headers + 2in 2out nets the most power so I was leaning towards that. Currently running stock sc heat exchangers into euro premuffler into GHL muffler. Motor is a euro spec freshly rebuild 3.2 so I think the sc heat exchangers are choking me up a bit. Heat isn’t necessary as I’ve already removed the blower motor and piping but I somehow still get a tickle of heat when I pull the levers, I can live without it.

Car update:
I used to spend all my time here but just faded away for a few years, car started to wear down too. Recently found the desire to get the car back in order so I did the following:

Repaint & bodywork
New wheels from braid
Lower
Bump steer kit
Rear spring plate
Front sway bar upgrade
Corner balance/alignment
Go through electrical gremlins - currently
Interior restoration - next

My car was a white 911 with a widebody conversion. This community helped me a lot when I was younger and knew a lot less!http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1574315443.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1574315443.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1574315443.jpg

Without a muffler you will get pulled over in a minute...Headers with a muffler or some type of silencer is a better bet.

Your BEST bet is S/S heat exchangers and a muffler. You have heat for for the cabin and defroster. Living CA, how are you going to pass smog?

I'm assuming you're talking SSI's or similar? It really depends on what muffler you have paired to the headers. Even when you say "M&K" that's pretty vague since they have different levels of loud based on what you want. As for headers and exhaust making a difference, IDK if that's really true since IIRC the second best and least expensive option is a cat delete pipe with a free flowing muffler.
A good tune, cat delete and free flowing muffler is the route I went. No dyno but even with a dyno from what I've read it really depends on the type of dyno used. Apparently not all dynos are created equal.

I used to drop the cat delete (test pipe) and slip the cat back in when going for a smog test in California.

Our cars run very clean and used to pass without the cats. My car would fail the 'visual' inspection after passing the sniff test.

It sucked

Thanks joe bob, nice seeing you still around here I’ll never be able to forget the dancing banana that was next to your name. My brother got a set of Carrera decals from you 5 or so years ago.

Muffler is certain. Thinking M&K 2+2 in raw finish. This isn’t race car loud is it? If memory serves me right the SSI’s are a little to small for 3.2 and choke up top end. I’m willing to part with the heat the defrost hasn’t worked in years anyways

From what I remember cat delete or euro premuffler was a good alternative but I’ve seen lots of people swear by swapping out their heat exchangers with SSIs or headers. I remember the SSI’s being better for 3 liter motors and slightly too small for 3.2’s but I could be wrong

What color is that? Looks similar to the color of mine.
Our RSR headers were designed for the Carrera 3.2L engine. Headers set the stage for the tone/character while the muffler decides how loud it will be. Our RSR headers are tuned so you start with a tuned sound. The M26 dual-in dual-out muffler is a sport muffler, therefor aggressive but still a streetable muffler. We have baffle options that tame it a bit. We also have a ST (Street) series muffler and now an Active Exhaust system as well. These are in-between OEM and Sport with the Active Exhaust being Street quiet at idle/cruise and Sport sound when you get on it.
If going with the OEM/cat setup we have a CARB approved sport cat that is about 2hp shy of the performance gains seen by our pre-muffler. Active Exhaust option is available for that one as well.

^

I have Brian's Headers and dual-in dual-out Street muffler.......love the sound of a classic 911.

Hey Rarly, I was hoping you would chime in.

It was the stock black color for late 80’s through the 90’s color code L700. Aggressive but streetable is exactly what I’m looking for.

The headers weigh only 6.5 lbs is that right? What’s that compared to the stock heat exchangers? Just curious.

They’re pretty easy to instal right? No need to move oil lines and stuff?

Open exhaust? Ok.

If you're fortunate to have one of these for trips to the grocery store, you'll need earplugs and earmuffs to avoid hearing loss, plus a separate bank account for bail, fines and vehicle impound fees.

These are available in two flavors. If you can dial your repro system to 110 dB, that's about the right sound pressure level (SPL). Allow your neighbors to review, then proceed accordingly.

2018-19 version (4.0 liters):
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2019-20 version (4.2 liters). This one is less painful:
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Sherwood

A lot of guys run 3.2's with SSI's. My brother has SSI's on his rebuilt 3.2. He had larger B&B's on it I think but settled in on the SSI's with an M&K muffler

I'm guessing the OP isn't worried about smog certification. Lucky guy.:D

^
A bit of persuasion on one oil line is necessary...... I used a clamp by the chain box to secure it.

George's headers (thank you Scott! 4flyboy) with a custom muffler which is essentially a pair of megaphones masquerading as a muffler on my M491. It's loud. (apologies for cameraman's finger)

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It feels like a have to move mountains every two years just to pass it as it, may as well make those two years even more special 😂

I think this will be my desired setup. Do you have a sound clip? Is it livable and do your neighbors complain?

My car is already moderately loud with the GHL and euro premuffler. I have no sound pad in the engine and the interior is stripped to metal with all insulation removed. I’ll be installing both a engine sound mat and Dynomat in the interior so even if it gets way louder I think it’ll sound about the same to me with all that deadening material. Really concerned about neighbors when I wake up at 6am for the gym.

Headers weigh 15 pounds/set, muffler 13 pounds. OEM about double that.
Yes easy to install as that was one of the design parameters. Oil line can be retained. Carrera version can stay put, SC version needs to be moved up a tad. Best to back date if you can just to clean things up aesthetically.
There is a video on our site of a 3.0L SC that captures the actual sound very well. Also a video on the header page. The MKM26 muffler is pretty aggressive, if your neighborhood is not stone quiet you can idle out and probably be OK. Worst problem is buildings that echo back the sound. I've noticed our R&D car is really loud when fired up in the garage then about 1/3 as loud once I pull down the drive. We've got an Active Exhaust that solves that problem.

^
Is it loud ? I really think this is a subjective question. I've own so many hot rods over the years I don't really know how to answer that. It is much louder than a stock 3.2 911. It sounds great. I get up at 5 am and I haven't had any neighbors complain to my face. Maybe that because I've been known to run the leaf blower at 6:00 am on a Saturday morning. I am thrilled I went this direction with my exhaust choice.

If you are as sincerely concerned about not disturbing your neighbors at 6 AM are as you say you are, you may want to consider a 3 out muffler. It’s basically a 2 out muffler like a sport muffler with an additional pipe exiting the side like the old school mufflers. Now get caps for the twin outs which can be removed when you feel like opening it up, but with the caps on, you won’t piss off your neighbors

Are the Rarlyl8 headers being made to run with Gt3 mufflers now?

If you don't have muffler you will get pulled over in a minute.

That is one thing we are working on right now. We just released an Active Exhaust System that works with headers. It is based on our ST street series muffler that have either GT3 or S tailpipe configurations. The sound level on this muffler at idle and cruise is just a bit louder than stock, jump on the throttle and it is Sport loud. The valves allow an alternate high volume path to exit along with the standard path. Here is a picture of the prototype being tested using OEM early exchangers. Production units will have the valves angled back. We are testing these with our new long tube headers now as well.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1574434176.JPG

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1574434176.JPG

We also have a version of these new headers that will be modified to accept 997 and 991 GT3 mufflers. A couple of Pelicanites have sent me the mufflers and secondary systems to work it up. Those systems should be finished before the new year. There is a twin cat system in the works as well, lots of exiting things coming for 2020!

The wail on a racetrack ... that's a beautiful sound but puttering about in a parking lot, why is it so loud ?

I did not realize that "AWESOME" had a decibel level.

"which is essentially a pair of megaphones masquerading as a muffler"

^^^ OK, so there's loud and there's racecar loud ... without the muffler or with a fake muffler, it's closer to the latter. Yeah, in one's neighborhood, better check with the neighbors since it is loud at any speed. That active exhaust tech makes sense for the BOBW.

Is that idle wavering on the M491 or is it just the exhaust puttering ?

Per data from Bill V. @ 6500 RPM its about 325 Hz. and I'm also guessing 110 decibels.
About as much fun as you can have with your clothes on IMO

the idle is lumpy from a combination of a custom Sal Carceller chip designed to work with the headers and muffler.

I have no idea what hp the engine is generating, I'll go to a dyno this spring. The car is MUCH quicker than it used to be but there are far too many factors to determine the cause. In doing the headers and muffler, also done:

Swapped in a spare 1975 915 that shifts like a Honda. I have to rebuild the original to the car box as it has a terrible 5th gear whine. The '75 was rebuilt at one time and I think it has custom gearing and probably a 7:31. When i rebuild the original one I'm also taking the '75 apart to replicate it as best as possible.

In swapping that box in, I had to use a different clutch cable. Doing that found that I only had one bushing in the throttle bell crank at the pedal box so I was never getting full throttle.

I also removed all AC components, blower and the wing (saved 30 lb on that alone) for an estimated over 100 lb loss in the rear of the car. It actually sits higher now from all of the weight loss.

So with all of those things changing at one time, I am looking forward to seeing what hp the chip and exhaust produce.

The second (newer car) sounds like dog crap compared to the first one..

Go straight pipes!!!!

I love my turbo with the zork, never been stopped, never been bugged by neighbors.
If the budget ever allows I will replace my old headers with some tuned from Rarly8.

If you haven't seen the above videos you should, I almost skipped them. The sound track in the first one makes my heart flutter.

nkotselas,
Have you gotten a suitable answer in this thread?
My car has B&B headers and muffler.
It is loud, but not obnoxious like a race car.

Here is an old startup video
Compare the volume of the starter with the idle.
Let me know if you want me to take another specific recording.

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I took some SSI decibel measurements several years back (link). I think my hearing is improving with age because it sounds much louder now.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/7731-performance-test-done-ssi-vs-stock-sc.html

These threads are always good for a laugh...

A muffler is what manages your sound level. Headers do impact it marginally, but the majority answer to this inquiry is, what muffler will you bolt to these headers.

I got pulled over once, stock exchangers, Fabspeed cat-delete and muffler delete. Cop stopped me to "hear the car take off".

Not sure what the aversion to police is in this thread. smh

Good point about the mufflers. When I installed my headers, I also installed a dual out Dansk muffler.

I ended up having a cap/cover made for one of the exhaust tips later in life. However, I only use the cover when I decide to leave the house early am. Without it, the SC is very loud when cold. Not bad once it warms up.

Seems like someone on this board named Ben fabricated the cover. Hard to remember, but it is a very well made stainless steel cover.

There are a different sort of police on this coast.....:rolleyes:

Party poopers you might say:rolleyes:

I'm also the wrong guy for input on this thread :p

I have headers and M&K 911R and am seriously considering megaphones for the street :cool:

Still alive and kicking...thanks.