How loud are headers really? Plus bonus intro and pics

[nkotselas]

Question:
Can they be used on a daily? I drive mine all the time but I love the loud sound and can live with it, it’s more an issue of if the neighbors can live with it?

More detail:
I’m back in the 911 game and going through upgrades. Considering headers/M&K or similar option for power and weight savings. According to a chart Steve Wong posted headers + 2in 2out nets the most power so I was leaning towards that. Currently running stock sc heat exchangers into euro premuffler into GHL muffler. Motor is a euro spec freshly rebuild 3.2 so I think the sc heat exchangers are choking me up a bit. Heat isn’t necessary as I’ve already removed the blower motor and piping but I somehow still get a tickle of heat when I pull the levers, I can live without it.

Car update:
I used to spend all my time here but just faded away for a few years, car started to wear down too. Recently found the desire to get the car back in order so I did the following:

Repaint & bodywork
New wheels from braid
Lower
Bump steer kit
Rear spring plate
Front sway bar upgrade
Corner balance/alignment
Go through electrical gremlins - currently
Interior restoration - next

My car was a white 911 with a widebody conversion. This community helped me a lot when I was younger and knew a lot less!

[Joe Bob]

Without a muffler you will get pulled over in a minute...Headers with a muffler or some type of silencer is a better bet.

Your BEST bet is S/S heat exchangers and a muffler. You have heat for for the cabin and defroster. Living CA, how are you going to pass smog?

[cabmandone]

I'm assuming you're talking SSI's or similar? It really depends on what muffler you have paired to the headers. Even when you say "M&K" that's pretty vague since they have different levels of loud based on what you want. As for headers and exhaust making a difference, IDK if that's really true since IIRC the second best and least expensive option is a cat delete pipe with a free flowing muffler.
A good tune, cat delete and free flowing muffler is the route I went. No dyno but even with a dyno from what I've read it really depends on the type of dyno used. Apparently not all dynos are created equal.

[4flyboy]

I used to drop the cat delete (test pipe) and slip the cat back in when going for a smog test in California.

Our cars run very clean and used to pass without the cats. My car would fail the 'visual' inspection after passing the sniff test.

It sucked

[nkotselas]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

Without a muffler you will get pulled over in a minute...Headers with a muffler or some type of silencer is a better bet.

Your BEST bet is S/S heat exchangers and a muffler. You have heat for for the cabin and defroster. Living CA, how are you going to pass smog?

Thanks joe bob, nice seeing you still around here I’ll never be able to forget the dancing banana that was next to your name. My brother got a set of Carrera decals from you 5 or so years ago.

Muffler is certain. Thinking M&K 2+2 in raw finish. This isn’t race car loud is it? If memory serves me right the SSI’s are a little to small for 3.2 and choke up top end. I’m willing to part with the heat the defrost hasn’t worked in years anyways

[nkotselas]

Originally Posted by cabmando

I'm assuming you're talking SSI's or similar? It really depends on what muffler you have paired to the headers. Even when you say "M&K" that's pretty vague since they have different levels of loud based on what you want. As for headers and exhaust making a difference, IDK if that's really true since IIRC the second best and least expensive option is a cat delete pipe with a free flowing muffler.
A good tune, cat delete and free flowing muffler is the route I went. No dyno but even with a dyno from what I've read it really depends on the type of dyno used. Apparently not all dynos are created equal.

From what I remember cat delete or euro premuffler was a good alternative but I’ve seen lots of people swear by swapping out their heat exchangers with SSIs or headers. I remember the SSI’s being better for 3 liter motors and slightly too small for 3.2’s but I could be wrong

[RarlyL8]

What color is that? Looks similar to the color of mine.
Our RSR headers were designed for the Carrera 3.2L engine. Headers set the stage for the tone/character while the muffler decides how loud it will be. Our RSR headers are tuned so you start with a tuned sound. The M26 dual-in dual-out muffler is a sport muffler, therefor aggressive but still a streetable muffler. We have baffle options that tame it a bit. We also have a ST (Street) series muffler and now an Active Exhaust system as well. These are in-between OEM and Sport with the Active Exhaust being Street quiet at idle/cruise and Sport sound when you get on it.
If going with the OEM/cat setup we have a CARB approved sport cat that is about 2hp shy of the performance gains seen by our pre-muffler. Active Exhaust option is available for that one as well.

[AG81]

^

I have Brian's Headers and dual-in dual-out Street muffler.......love the sound of a classic 911.

[nkotselas]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

What color is that? Looks similar to the color of mine.
Our RSR headers were designed for the Carrera 3.2L engine. Headers set the stage for the tone/character while the muffler decides how loud it will be. Our RSR headers are tuned so you start with a tuned sound. The M26 dual-in dual-out muffler is a sport muffler, therefor aggressive but still a streetable muffler. We have baffle options that tame it a bit. We also have a ST (Street) series muffler and now an Active Exhaust system as well. These are in-between OEM and Sport with the Active Exhaust being Street quiet at idle/cruise and Sport sound when you get on it.
If going with the OEM/cat setup we have a CARB approved sport cat that is about 2hp shy of the performance gains seen by our pre-muffler. Active Exhaust option is available for that one as well.

Hey Rarly, I was hoping you would chime in.

It was the stock black color for late 80’s through the 90’s color code L700. Aggressive but streetable is exactly what I’m looking for.

The headers weigh only 6.5 lbs is that right? What’s that compared to the stock heat exchangers? Just curious.

They’re pretty easy to instal right? No need to move oil lines and stuff?

[911pcars]

Open exhaust? Ok.

If you're fortunate to have one of these for trips to the grocery store, you'll need earplugs and earmuffs to avoid hearing loss, plus a separate bank account for bail, fines and vehicle impound fees.

These are available in two flavors. If you can dial your repro system to 110 dB, that's about the right sound pressure level (SPL). Allow your neighbors to review, then proceed accordingly.

2018-19 version (4.0 liters):


2019-20 version (4.2 liters). This one is less painful:


Sherwood

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by nkotselas

From what I remember cat delete or euro premuffler was a good alternative but I’ve seen lots of people swear by swapping out their heat exchangers with SSIs or headers. I remember the SSI’s being better for 3 liter motors and slightly too small for 3.2’s but I could be wrong

A lot of guys run 3.2's with SSI's. My brother has SSI's on his rebuilt 3.2. He had larger B&B's on it I think but settled in on the SSI's with an M&K muffler

[Trackrash]

I'm guessing the OP isn't worried about smog certification. Lucky guy.

[AG81]

Originally Posted by nkotselas

No need to move oil lines and stuff?

^
A bit of persuasion on one oil line is necessary...... I used a clamp by the chain box to secure it.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

George's headers (thank you Scott! 4flyboy) with a custom muffler which is essentially a pair of megaphones masquerading as a muffler on my M491. It's loud. (apologies for cameraman's finger)

[nkotselas]

Originally Posted by Trackrash

I'm guessing the OP isn't worried about smog certification. Lucky guy.

It feels like a have to move mountains every two years just to pass it as it, may as well make those two years even more special 😂

[nkotselas]

Originally Posted by AG81

^

I have Brian's Headers and dual-in dual-out Street muffler.......love the sound of a classic 911.

I think this will be my desired setup. Do you have a sound clip? Is it livable and do your neighbors complain?

My car is already moderately loud with the GHL and euro premuffler. I have no sound pad in the engine and the interior is stripped to metal with all insulation removed. I’ll be installing both a engine sound mat and Dynomat in the interior so even if it gets way louder I think it’ll sound about the same to me with all that deadening material. Really concerned about neighbors when I wake up at 6am for the gym.

[RarlyL8]

Headers weigh 15 pounds/set, muffler 13 pounds. OEM about double that.
Yes easy to install as that was one of the design parameters. Oil line can be retained. Carrera version can stay put, SC version needs to be moved up a tad. Best to back date if you can just to clean things up aesthetically.
There is a video on our site of a 3.0L SC that captures the actual sound very well. Also a video on the header page. The MKM26 muffler is pretty aggressive, if your neighborhood is not stone quiet you can idle out and probably be OK. Worst problem is buildings that echo back the sound. I've noticed our R&D car is really loud when fired up in the garage then about 1/3 as loud once I pull down the drive. We've got an Active Exhaust that solves that problem.

[AG81]

Originally Posted by nkotselas

Is it livable and do your neighbors complain?

^
Is it loud ? I really think this is a subjective question. I've own so many hot rods over the years I don't really know how to answer that. It is much louder than a stock 3.2 911. It sounds great. I get up at 5 am and I haven't had any neighbors complain to my face. Maybe that because I've been known to run the leaf blower at 6:00 am on a Saturday morning. I am thrilled I went this direction with my exhaust choice.

[RSBob]

If you are as sincerely concerned about not disturbing your neighbors at 6 AM are as you say you are, you may want to consider a 3 out muffler. It’s basically a 2 out muffler like a sport muffler with an additional pipe exiting the side like the old school mufflers. Now get caps for the twin outs which can be removed when you feel like opening it up, but with the caps on, you won’t piss off your neighbors

[mikedsilva]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

Headers weigh 15 pounds/set, muffler 13 pounds. OEM about double that.
Yes easy to install as that was one of the design parameters. Oil line can be retained. Carrera version can stay put, SC version needs to be moved up a tad. Best to back date if you can just to clean things up aesthetically.
There is a video on our site of a 3.0L SC that captures the actual sound very well. Also a video on the header page. The MKM26 muffler is pretty aggressive, if your neighborhood is not stone quiet you can idle out and probably be OK. Worst problem is buildings that echo back the sound. I've noticed our R&D car is really loud when fired up in the garage then about 1/3 as loud once I pull down the drive. We've got an Active Exhaust that solves that problem.

Are the Rarlyl8 headers being made to run with Gt3 mufflers now?