Targa Window Motor Replacement

[CCM911]

Hello:

I have to replace the window motor on the driver's side of my 1984 Targa. Are the any secrets to doing this? Everything I have read seems to be really vague. Have any of you done this repair?

Can I just undo enough bolts to get the motor to swing down?

The Bentley photos appear to be a coupe.

Thanks so much!!

[Discseven]

Chris... it's possible to change the motor only through the side panel speaker hole provided you have a speaker above the forward storage area that mounts to the door panel. This route is much simpler than taking the door panel off. There are tricks to this. No problem to explain if you do indeed have a speaker hole to go through.

Should make it clear that this route only allows motor to be swapped. Gearbox remains in place. Based on my experience it is very difficult if not impossible to remove the gearbox by working through the speaker hole.

If you want to swap motor AND gearbox you'll need to remove the door panel. Will see if I have any pics and post them if I do.

[CCM911]

Thanks, Karl. So I go in through the round speaker hole?

That will save a TON of time!

Thanks.

[Hotshot]

It’s very simple to take the panels off. Here’s what you have when out. Check your locks and rods while in there. Works better with the window up

[CCM911]

I know I am being dumb, but I am not feeling anything when I go through the speaker hole. My window is in the up position.

[Discseven]

Put a mirror in the hole and you'll see the motor. Or put your smart phone in and take pics. Suggest first thing is to get your mind oriented to this being a tight space to work in. There is literally just enough room to do this. I'd say I have average size hands and it was doable. I've taken door apart to get to window motor & gearbox and this is not easy but I prefer it. Patience is needed.

Pics here are from my '80 Targa and speaker hole motor swap.




My speaker hole. I put window up for this.




iPhone put into speaker hole looking up at motor.




As I know it, motors are either spade connections or hard wired. If hard wired, look for junctions. If none, wires need to be cut. Whom ever cut these wires cut them too close to the motor.




There should be a plastic cap on the motor. That needs to be pulled down to access the two screws that secure the motor to the gearbox. Once that cap is down, find something that fits snugly between the bottom of the motor and the inside bottom of the door. This will come in handy later when the motor is installing---it will be used to keep the motor in place while you rest your arms and get the screws reinstalled. There's one screw to the front of the motor's casing and one to the rear (front and rear car-wise)---you can see where these screws are located in the photo below. These screws need to be removed without looking at them. No offense... if you're a klutz, this project s going to be a nightmare and you will curse me into eternity for suggesting it. If you're accustomed to working in the blind & by feel... no worries---you got this.

BEFORE removing the screws entirely, tape the window glass to your pizza slice glass. If you don't do this, the window may come crashing down when the motor is removed. Tape it so the glass can move down slightly.

There are pins on the motor casing that serve to register the motor casing to the gearbox casing. The motor needs to come straight away from the gearbox for these pins to release. If the motor feels stuck when the screws are removed... tap on the motor to loosen the pin's connection to the gearbox. It may be necessary to finger spin the motor to get the motor away from the gearbox. If you extract the motor perpendicularly the entire way as it comes away from the gearbox... you'll come out a winner as you'll see next.


When the motor is removed... have a look straight up into the gearbox...



If you see this... good news.




If you see this... not so good news. The drive shaft ball bushing has rotated. No worries... this can be aligned.




So you understand this ball bushing... it floats in the gearbox (and so can rotate. There is a plastic retainer not shown here that creates a tight nest so the ball does not flop around.)






As long as you can see some of the ball bushing's hole... that's good news. Point being it has a flat surface around the hole opening allowing it to be touched and so aligned. I stuck a drill bit into the gearbox to align my ball. Whatever you use needs to be a diameter that touches the entire flat surface of the ball without going into the hole. When this touching is done, it's necessary to take a pic afterwards to confirm the ball is indeed aligned. Plan for some trial and error.




Here's hole's measure.

Think there are 10 photos here which is max. Will continue in next post.

[Discseven]

Part 2


Aligning the ball bushing may or may not be needed and may go easily or not. Not knowing your patience for things... a reminder... patience.

Now the last trick...



Grease at least one screw so it will stick to the motor casing and place it in position in the casing with no threads protruding from the side connecting to the gearbox casing. The front screw is the one to do this with. Put the gizmo that will be used to brace the motor in place inside the door so you can get it if necessary while also holding the motor in place. Everything is done one handed---there's no space for two hands through the speaker hole.

Grease the worm gears, not the head of the shaft that inserts the ball bushing. If there's grease on the shafts head, it might move the ball out of alignment. When straightening my ball, I noted how far the drill bit went into the gearbox. Then referenced that to the shaft by using a block lightly taped to the gearbox. When the shaft inserts the gearbox, the motor's bottom is tilted towards the rear of the car. This allows the worm gear to pass by a few teeth on the toothed wheel. If you don't know how far to insert the shaft in this cocked position, the shaft might bump the ball out of alignment so measuring and a block or some other system is necessary.

Once the shaft's worm gears are seated int the wheel, the motor needs to be finger spun to move the shaft into the ball bushing. Maybe the window can be moved to facilitate this process---I don't know. I finger spun the motor. It's slow going. As this is done, you'll feel the motor casing closing in on the gearbox casing.




When the shaft is in deep enough, the block is finger-kicked out of the way and the motor is moved perpendicular to the gearbox. You have to feel for this perpendicular. Then the motor is moved up and into position by continuing the finger spinning. If the motor gets to within around a 1/4" from the gearbox casing, I'd say the shaft is in the ball bushing. If motor does not get this close, it's most likely the shaft did not enter the ball---it's a do over. If the motor is close to the gear box but won't go that last 1/4" or so, the motor and gearbox are not aligned for the registration pins to slip into their slots. Wiggle the motor feeling for an alignment between the motor and gearbox edges. When the pins seat, you'll instantly know it---there's a solid feeling to the motor.

BEFORE returning the motor... and pardon me for being out of sync, the plastic cap may need to be threaded onto the wires depending on your wiring. The sealant you see in the pics here goes between the cap and the cases. I scrapped as much as possible away from the gearbox case after removing the motor. Because I swapped in a hard wired motor, my cap was on the wires and dangling while I installed the motor. After securing the motor to the gearbox, I put sealant on the cap and slipped it up into position.

If you're by yourself, get all your tools within reach by the door.

This is not simple but as far as I'm concerned, and even with the trial and error necessary to get a feel for working with these parts in the blind, I rather do this than take my door panel off. If the scissors need to be removed from the door to gain access to the gearbox & motor, dealing with the scissors can be very unpleasant unless one is used to them.

If you're saying "screw this speaker hole route!" I understand. It sounds daunting until you wrap your head around it. Don't feel obligated to speaker-hole it. Do it the way you're most comfortable.

If you have any questions or want more detail, let's talk. 786.449.4488.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by CCM911

I know I am being dumb, but I am not feeling anything when I go through the speaker hole. My window is in the up position.

Chris... motor is of course up as you're feeling inside the door but to the rear slightly.

As I recall, it's one thing to pull the door panel off and reinstall it. It's another to get the window motor & gearbox out---the glass track has to be disconnected from the rollers on the scissor or the glass has to be pulled out from the track. Then put back exactly in the position it was in or the window won't fit the Targa roof as it did. Then the scissor has to come out of the door AND go back in---with space engineered by someone interested in torturing DIY Porsche owners. This is why I "tested" going through the speaker hole.

[sky1jord]

I used this article as my "bible" in R&Ring the window motor on my '88 Targa.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/101_Projects_Porsche_911/78-Window_Regulator/78-Window_Regulator.htm

As one might guess, the hardest part is removal and replacement of the regulator assembly. This is easy if you are an octopus or are armed with divine powers, not so much if you're merely human. However, if you have the patience of Job and an adequate vocabulary of four-letter words, everything will suddenly "fall" in place. Skill is of no value here.

Maybe I was lucky, but no alignment of anything was required after re-assembly.

[CCM911]

Thanks, guys! I am all done and the door is back together!

I tried Karl's method first. He was right, the ball bushing was mis-aligned, But since I didn't have a mirror, I figured I'd just drop the whole regulator. It really wasn't that bad at all. Still a five hour PITA job, lol.

Bit now I have a window that works.

And I have a totally new level of respect for Karl. To replace the motor only, and do it essentially blind makes him a legend!!!