Been a long time since I first posted my ideas. I now have everything in house and have been getting everything installed on the car. The amount of time I have into this is way more than I ever would have expected. The caliper refresh was a good chunk of it. This includes the time to grind the caliper throats to accept the 28mm turbo rotors. Not difficult to do with a 6" cutoff wheel in a high-speed angle grinder. Cleaning everything as it comes off the car is another big time sink. All hopefully worth it in the end.

The rears first. We know this has can be done using standard 930 turbo rotors as it has been documented previously.

Calipers disassembled and professionally Cerakoted with the high temp coating. I purchased the rear calipers with the mounting holes already relocated. Someone did a nice job plugging the original holes and re-drilling on 3" centers. Unfortunately they were done for a standard Carerra rear rotor and 1/8" to far inward and the caliper would not clear the larger 930 rotor outer diameter. I took them to my local machine shop and had the holes moved outward and everything lines up perfectly (see the photo a few posts down, you can see there is plenty of clearance and no pad overhang.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1595908948.JPG

In order to get the caliper centered on the rotor, the caliper needs to be moved inward almost exactly .125". Rather than use a bunch of washers/spacers I fabricated an aluminum piece from some 1/8" aluminum stock which put the rotor in the center of the caliper.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1595908948.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1595908948.JPG

Before:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1595909468.JPG

After:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1595909468.JPG

Another thing I was worried about was having to shave the stock 964 pads to fit the wider rotors - but the Pagid pads from our host slid right in, tight but no need to shave them to get them to fit.

Caliper centered nicely on the rotor with the 1/8" spacer. No pad overhang with the larger 304mm diameter turbo rotor. You can barely see in this photo, the stock rear hard brake fluid line can easily be "massaged" into shape to mate with the caliper. The fronts need a new brake line which I'll show later...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1595909559.JPG

I also substituted 40mm M12 bolts holding the calipers in to account for the additional thickness of the spacer.

16" Fuchs fits just fine:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1595909955.JPG

I think there is enough clearance for a 15" wheel. I have a .25" spacer on the wheel in these photos.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1595909955.JPG

Here's a shot showing the wheel clearances from the inside. This is a 8x16" Fuchs. Even without the .25" wheel spacer there is plenty of clearance. I have 9x16 Euromeister rear wheels on the car which also have plenty of clearance.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1595950753.JPG

very interesting, subscribed.

That bolt circle is the same from the 356C to the 89 Carrera.
r=63mm

If someone can confirm it.

Now for the fronts. New 30mm Rotor and 1/4" flat aluminum hat compared to the stock 24mm Carrera rotor. This is the key to the whole setup, thicker rotor with a diameter that will still allow a 16" (and maybe 15") Fuchs wheel to fit. The 964 front caliper throat size is designed to accept a 28mm thick rotor. The mods required to accommodate a thicker rotor are described by Bill V. in another thread, but I was not comfortable going all the way to the 32mm 930 rotor thickness as there would be almost no room for error in the caliper offset, and probably would need to shave the pads down before installing. With a 30mm thick rotor the pads were tight but did slide right in, and I have 3-4mm clearance on either side of the rotor to the caliper throats. This should be allow some flexing and thermal expansion and still not have any issue with caliper/rotor interference. This dimension all but eliminates an off the shelf rotor. The Stoptech 282mm front hat/rotor will work, but it's only 28mm thick and very expensive. The custom machined hat and Coleman racing custom rotor were combined $200 each delivered. Coleman has several different rotor blanks to use as starting points, you send them your spec. sheet and three weeks later rotors show up in the mail. Pricing is very good and they are wonderful to deal with.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1596995050.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1596995050.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1596995050.JPG

Now for the real test -will it all fit. There are many dimensions to worry about:
Will the rotor interfere with the A-Arm?
Will the caliper be centered on the rotor (the only variables you have here are the hat thickness and spacers to move the caliper inward)?
Will there be no pad overhang?
Will the caliper interfere with the hat or hat mounting bolts?
Will the wheel fit?

Any one of the above goes wrong and you just threw away at least $400 in parts. Well, I guess I got lucky.

Plenty of clearance on the lower part of the control arm:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1596995584.JPG

Caliper nicely centered on the rotor (more on this later), and pads fit without needing to be shaved, but just barely:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1596995584.JPG

This is where things get interesting. There is very little clearance between the caliper and the spokes of a 7" Euromeister wheel. Hard to tell in this photo, but there is about 3mm between the wheel spoke and the raised "Porsche script". I got lucky here, given that I had ample clearance on the Rotor/Control arm, I should have gone with a 5/16" hat in stead of a 1/4", moving the rotor inward. I could then use a small spacer to move the caliper inward to keep it centered on the rotor, and move it away from the wheel spokes. As it is, I used a 1mm shim to move the caliper inward slightly, and a 2mm Elephant Racing wheel spacer to move the front wheel outward. No big deal, but I was already worried about the tire clipping the fender so I will probably need to roll/modify my fenders just in case.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1596995584.JPG

Need a 5mm longer caliper bolts as the 964 mounting ears are thicker than a stock Carrera calipers. You can also make out here where I modified the throats to accept the wider rotors:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1596995584.JPG

Plenty of clearance in the radial direction for 16" and probably 15" Fuchs:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1596995584.JPG

Few other details, the front dust shields need to be modified to fit the larger calipers. (On the rears I just left them off completely).
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1596996404.JPG

Custom hard brake lines, 10" Choline parts from Bel-Metric:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1596996404.JPG

Not shown is the 23mm 930 Master Cylinder in installed. This was the biggest pain in the ass part of the whole project. Amazing how much stuff has to be disassembled to get the assembly out just to undo 2 bolts that hold the cylinder to the booster.

I gravity bled the whole system and while it took some time, the results were outstanding. First pedal push went to the floor, but must have been some sort of priming of the master (which I did bench-bleed before install). I went around all four calipers (starting from the RR, LR, RF, LF order) a second time and a few additional air bubbles came out but a third time around lightly tapping the calipers and brake lines with a rubber mallet to free up any trapped air, and nothing but fluid. The pedal is rock solid, seems to be less spongy than with the original setup which I attribute to the new fluid and fresh bleed of the system.

First test drive around the neighborhood to make sure there we no clearance issues and that the pedal would stay firm (which it did), then out to the freeway to bed the pads/rotors. Once bedded in, went for a short drive on some twisty roads and so far so good. Very stable under hard braking, car doesn't pull to either side, and the pedal feel is quite good. I do notice a bit more pedal force is required for hard braking, not sure if this is the Pagid pads (from Pelican) or just that they are not fully bedded yet, but it feels like there is quite a bit more modulation range than the stock setup. The stock brakes were very easy to lock up, with this setup it feels like I can get to the verge of lockup and keep there.

Overall, so far I am very happy with the results. This isn't an upgrade for the faint of heart though, the amount of work in caliper modifications, parts procurement and installation is daunting, probably 40 hours or more for me but I'm slow. Not an insignificant part was cleaning all the components as they came off the car, and cleaning the car itself "while I was in there".

Now for the money shots.
Front before:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1596997733.JPG

Front after:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1596997733.JPG

Almost done:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1596997733.JPG

Car looks looks like a proper sports purpose hot-rod now:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1596997733.JPG

Kudos on creating another g-body braking solution with good fitment & thermal capacity @ a reasonable price.

Just a suggestion: add a lock that nut on the ARB adjustment link

I think I can say that all my original goals for this project were achieved:
Increased thermal capacity bolt on breaking system for a 1985 Carrera
Retain stock 16" Fuchs wheels
No pad overhang
No minimum rotor thickness spec. violations (24mm rear min. and 28mm front min. for 964 calipers)
Balanced braking system front/rear
INEXPENSIVE - I spent ~$1200 on two hats, four rotors, four 964 calipers, caliper rebuild/refinishing, 930 MC, misc. parts

Added bonus - cosmetically the car looks cooler :-)

Well done, thanks for comprehensive write up

This is a great write up and gives me hope for the set of 944T/964 calipers I bought (ebay $499) years ago intent on using the VCI kit. Only to find out that Doug was not able to machine the necessary machine work mods anymore. Congrats on the install and figuring out so that others may follow on your path. I would love to get your rotor specs and any guidance on what you would do differently.

I will post that info when I have a chance. I would definitely make some adjustments on the rotor hats, I have all the info there, just need to get some time to update my drawings and I will post here. I read probably 15 brake upgrade threads multiple times, much excellent information to learn from out there. The one thing I did not see was a way to keep your stock 16" Fuchs while getting a thicker front rotor with the 964 front calipers which can be found for great prices. I got lucky on my caliper purchases - bought 4 rears, sold two of them for a bit more than what I paid for all 4 initially, Bought one front on eBay for $85 shipped, and one from Autobahn (the guys who buy up all the Singer take-offs) for $100. $100 for the rebuild parts and $250 for the Cerakote and I' in $450 for four basically brand new calipers, less than the price of one new Brembo or equivalent.

I was about to give up until I stumbled on the Coleman custom front rotors thought. I spent I don't know how many hour looking through the Stoptech, AP Racing, Wilwood and others, they are either super expensive or just didn't have all the right dimensions. The Coleman solution is the key to the whole thing, and I haven't seen any threads with those as the base so I figured I'd share my setup in case it might help someone else.

Awesome job!
It will be appreciated by many for years to come.

Bill (wjdunham) and I communicated briefly a few weeks ago about the 964 caliper/system upgrade.

Congrats Bill. Excellent research on all the components to make this work. Upon Bill's advice, I contacted Coleman a couple times for a quote via their contact page, including a PDF of Bill's rotor specs, but have yet to get any response. Perhaps I'll get better response with a phone call (and submit their fabrication form via US mail?). In the meantime, Bill has added more info. Nice.

Any available off-the-shelf F/R upgrade is going to cost ~$4000 (including calipers). I think an equivalent and less expensive DIY solution is great. The path to completion is the issue and it appears Bill has paved the way.

BTW, many upgraded caliper systems use the expensive Mercedes Benz master cylinder (23mm cylinder). In some cases, the longer MB cylinder interferes with the front crossmember. However, a VW Corrado MC (22.2mm) seems to work as it provides slightly more crossmember clearance. I sourced an ATE aluminum MC (1 vs 2 lbs cast iron version) on eBay for about $60. haasad (Andy from England) confirmed this MC works fine with some reservoir feed tube mods.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1597128706.jpg

Bigger master cylinder problems - Pelican Parts Forums

Sherwood

An admirable project and description thereof, the kind of thing this forum is so good for. Hats-off (pun?) to Mr. Dunham.

Ok, so for me to understand you got custom Coleman hats and 30/xxx rings.
what diameter are the rings?

may you share the contact to Coleman?

Aren't the bolts of the hats-to-ring secured by any splines (like for the 930-turbo hats)?!
the hats are Aluminium you say; no fear they flex when heating up?!

Congrats, Bill!
Excellent job. This is the thread I've been waiting to find since I bought my 911.
Unfortunately (for me) I have a few other projects that are more pressing. I absolutely intend to follow in your footsteps when it's time for brakes.
Fantastic.