Fitting an Oil Cooling Sys. to a Non-cooler'd Car

MotoSook · 04-08-2003, 07:39 PM

Gang, I need help to fit an oil cooling system to my car. I have a 76S with a 3.0 and no external cooling system.

I have been offered a Mocal T-stat with some fittings (unknown size). I may have a line to get the factory under rocker pipes and possibly the others.

Anyone know if the Mocal t-stat will work with factory fittings? If not, what are the adaptor type/size?

I think I'll be buying the factory lines from the scavenger pump to the t-stat and the line from the t-stat to the oil tank. So the adaptor type/size to connect to a Mocal t-stat is????

If I can't get the factory under rocker pipes for cheap, I may end up fab'ing the lines from the t-stat to a bumper mounted cooler. The cooler will be installed when I install a CTR front bumpers.

Keep in mind, I'm cheap. So I'm trying to get a set of good used factory lines.

I'm totally lost here because of fitting sizes

HELP! Please. Knock/talk some sense into me, or I'll over engineer this thing and be stuck for months!

Thanks,

Jim Sims · 04-08-2003, 08:23 PM

Last year I put on a Porsche OEM external oil cooler with a trombone loop cooler on my '76 2.7 l. It has worked very well. I am now putting the A/C back in, in an attempt to get the oil over 190 degrees F.

You have to get adapters to go from the Porsche DIN standard oil line fittings to the AN fittings on the Mocal hardware. I seem to recall that the adapters were rather expensive like around $25 ea. www.batinc.net sells the stuff. Ensure the fittings and lines do not have an ID smaller than 3/4" (probably means AN16 fittings). Also keep in mind that a significant amount of cooling happens in the OEM metal lines running up and back; rubber hoses will not have nearly as much heat transfer. I assume you know about Elephant racing externally finned oil cooler lines which are even better than the OEM. Cheers, Jim

tmctguer · tmctguer's Garage

i put a carrera cooler with hard lines in the passenger side fender well of my '73 911E. i posted several threads about my project. search for them for the gory details.

i am extremely happy with the results and it was a relatively easy job, but it took a lot of pre-planning in order to minimize re-work and double drilling in my virgin body. i recall the costs as follows:

carrera cooler, shroud, shield (all new) $350 - $450
hard lines (used) $500 (i'm really guessing here....didn't check my receipt)
misc. hardware $30
new oil lines on engine: $ 100 (again, guessing)

time to install: approx. 8 - 12 hours (again, guessing)

i bought the lines and cooler from Parts Heaven in Hayward, CA. i bought the oil lines from PP. i bought the shroud and shield from my local porsche dealer. i bought the hardware from PP and a local hardware store.

good luck and email me if you have any specific questions.

MotoSook · 04-08-2003, 09:01 PM

Jim and tmctguer, thanks for the post. I did some more searching and surfing and came up with a couple of options.

http://www.batinc.net/files/kits.pdf

http://www.instant-g.com/Projects/911Mocal/index.html

But DANG! That's expensive, da boat of d'em! I have visited Elephant Racing's site a number of times, each time restraining myself from buying. I love Chuck's idea, but again, the price! I am CHEAP!

I know I can get all my parts for Chuck, but I'm trying to do this the Sanford and Son method. I have been trying to find good used parts as tmactguer has done, but even that option seems to be way more than I I think a good system should cost. And there is the chance that I will be stuck with crap for parts!

According to the BAT 911 solution, I'll have to pluck down 800 bones to get a front mounted cooler for my CTR bumper conversion! Geez! I can't win...the deeper I get into this 911 thing the more poor I get. When I'm I going to be able to enjoy the car without having to eating Raman every night!

Phew..OK ..I calmed down. Sorry.

The Mocal solution seems doable. I'll have to eat Raman for lunch and dinner I guess

.

Thanks for the input guys.

Chuck Moreland · 04-08-2003, 11:17 PM

I don't recommend trying to use a mocal tstat with porsche pipes. There are so many problems, it's just not worth it:

1) Mocal is AN fittings, so you need metric->AN adapters. Available adapters all yield male threaded AN fittings - just like the ones on the mocal tstat. So you also need an AN-AN couplers. 4 adapters and 4 couplers runs about $200. What happened to the savings? Plus you have an unwieldy looking rube goldberg solution.

2) Mocal lacks the pressure bypass valve built into the porsche tstat. The bypass protects the engine in the event the cooler loop is blocked (sludge in cooler, crushed lines, cold high viscosity oil, whatever).

3) Fittings are not oriented properly to hook up to factory pipes.

4) Looks non-factory, hurting resale vs. factory solution.

Mocal tstats only makes sense if you are going AN all the way. Then you have more problems to solve; sagging flex hoses, need to fabricate stone guards and mounts, loss of cooling provided by brass hard lines, even more non-factory in appearance and impact on resale.

When you look at the whole picture, it's hard to beat the factory solution.

thrown_hammer · 04-09-2003, 03:47 AM

Souk,
I have the Mocal package front to back. I think it looks good. Very "race car" looking. You and me...we think the same.(cheap)
The factory way is the "right" way...but my car, it ain't right.

MotoSook · 04-09-2003, 04:05 AM

Chuck, thanks for posting. I would like to go with the factory solution, but where are all the good used factory pipes? The two that run under the rocker seem to be made of gold. Anyway, I see all the points you made. I will have to rethink this. Thanks. I'll be in contact.

Shawn, my car ain't right neither, but more right than yours car. LOL

thrown_hammer · 04-09-2003, 04:52 AM

Hey! This car is righter than my last one. A step in the right direction...

Fight the power!

Jim Sims · 04-09-2003, 06:32 AM

"but where are all the good used factory pipes? The two that run under the rocker seem to be made of gold." The Bozos working at the tire and bargin auto repair shops have crushed them all with incorrectly placed floor jacks.

Jim

MotoSook · 04-09-2003, 06:58 AM

Too many Bozos in the world!

So, I know Chuck's finned lines are a great idea, but does anyone (Chuck?) make brass lines that can serve as a lower cost alternative to buying the same from the factory? It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to bend some brass tubing and weld/solder fittings on the end.

It seems the factory lines (or similar) will be sufficient for most applications. Especially in my case where I will fit a front mounted cooler. (Can't do the Ruf CTR bumper and not do this. It would look funny, IMO)

I'm not trying to say or express any negative opinion about Chuck's product, but I always lean toward the lower cost side of things if it will work.

Chuck, how about a lower cost solution like I mentioned above. Plain Brass lines with your fittings to replicate the factory lines?

JMPRO · JMPRO's Garage

Souk, a compromise may be offered in the compact cooler. It is very easy to install, low cost at $249.00 and you could always add the front cooler later when you have more money. The compact cooler probably will not be as effective as a full on front cooler but could offer 10 to 15 degrees of cooling and for hundreds of dollars less and a lot less work.

you can find it pelicanparts
Jerry

MotoSook · 04-09-2003, 08:06 AM

Jerry, thanks for the post. I have considered the compact cooler, but I really want to go all the way. Otherwise, I'll have a gapping hole in the front with a Ruf CTR bumper :O

The plan now, is to get some used factory pipes, new short pieces in the back, then a custom front set up for a front mounted cooler. I know this is more realistic as others have done this. I'll just have to suck my parts budget dry

david lipman · 04-09-2003, 11:27 AM

The compact cooler looks interesting. I have a 2.7 with no front cooler.

Anyone out there using it, is it "cool enough" by itself?

Also, I would assume it significantly increases warm-up time in cold weather since it isn't thermostat constrolled(?).

Anyone have any experiences?

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

I would use either factory lines or Chucks lines only! You are sure to regret any other solution. I would also use Chucks "widemouth cooler" if sticking w/ the fender mount. B&B if going for valance mount. Chucks "widemouth" & a smaller Setrab or Mocal if doing a dual cooler setup.

The extra expense of a good cooler is soon forgotten. The disappointment of a second rate setup will stay as long as the car is in your possession.

JMPRO · JMPRO's Garage

The compact cooler has not been tested on a car without a front cooler and any one that has used it in that way has not reported any data to me .I think you should see at least an 8 to 10 degree drop in temps using only the compact cooler. The warm up time was not extended when testing was done on my car a 78 SC but i live in So. Cal. and am not affected by very low temps. If i lived in a very cold climate i might cover the cooler with insulation in the winter, that is if the warm up did take to long.
The engine thermostat does regulate the compact cooler to some degree by the fact that the thermostat will bypass the regular oil cooler on the engine untill the engine warms up so in effect using only the compact cooler.
Jerry

MotoSook · 04-09-2003, 02:26 PM

Bill, thanks for the post. I'm coming to my senses and have resumed my search for used factory parts. Thanks.

pbs911 · pbs911's Garage

Quote:

I'm coming to my senses and have resumed my search for used factory parts.

From what it sounds like you can pick up used factory lines from the thermostate to the front for one-to-one-fifty less than the Elephant lines. If you were here, I would take the ones off my car to sell and by myself the Elephant lines. I believe the extra cooling is well worth the extra $.

Be careful with a used oil cooler. Know exactly the condition of the motor is came out of. A cooler that has been attached to a motor that fried may as well be thrown away since there is a great possiblity it will contain nice little bits of metal. I looked for months for a relialbe used cooler from the front valance and if you find one the cost is just slightly less than a new one. It seems front mounted coolers are just one of those parts that command a high price even used.

Oil cooling is your motor's source of a long life. Even with used factory parts and a used front mounted cooler you are looking at over a grand by the time your done. Personally, it's not an area I tried to save money on.

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

Souk,

I have the front mount cooler with the factory thermostat... You're welcome to noodle on it for ideas...

MotoSook · 04-09-2003, 04:09 PM

CHris, Thanks. I'm slowly working myself intot he poorhouse

So I have to noodle

HarryD · 04-09-2003, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JMPRO
Souk, a compromise may be offered in the compact cooler. It is very easy to install, low cost at $249.00 and you could always add the front cooler later when you have more money. The compact cooler probably will not be as effective as a full on front cooler but could offer 10 to 15 degrees of cooling and for hundreds of dollars less and a lot less work.
you can find it pelicanparts
Jerry

Hi Jerry,

I was looking at the compact cooler as a temporary (read inexpensive) way to help keep my car cooler but am concerned about the plumbing design.

If I am not mistaken, this unit is on a suction line for the motor oil pump. In my engineering experience, a good way to significantly reduce the flow of a pump is to restrict the inlet (reduce NPSH available in engineering parlance) by having a bunch of right angle fittings such as are shown on your unit. These ought to be sweep (long radius) elbows so you do not create a significant restriction to flow from the rapid transition of direction. At a cost of $250.00, we should be able to get good fluid mechanics.