Value of 69S engine

[RichMason]

A local Pelican has an original 69S engine for sale that would be a tempting upgrade for my E. The MFI will need to be rebuilt and, while the engine spins, I think it will need attention as well. Are the 69S engines and MFI rare enough to merit a $3500 asking price for a non-running, condition unknown engine? The exhaust is also shot (heater boxes and muffler).

[RPMClassic]

Rebuild MFI Pump - $800-1500
OEM Exhaust - $350-450
OEM Heat exchangers - $750-1100
Engine Rebuild - Labor Only 40 hrs ( $60-110 an hr)
Engine Parts ( see Waynes new book)
Machining Sublet - ($500-1500)

These things get expensive - no free lunch. Buy Waynes book and hunker down to some serious reading!

[Tim Walsh]

Rich are you thinking of putting it in your E?

[RichMason]

Yes. it would go in my E. I ged the impression from RPMs post that there isn't alot special about the S engine - its all a question of dollars. Wasn't the 2.0S the highest ratio of horsepower to displacment in a production engine from Porsche?

[RPMClassic]

A 911S engine is certainly a nice find.!I hope you didn't misunderstand my earlier post. From the sounds of it, the engine is not currently in a condition that is ready to install into your car...so eventually even at $3500 selling price - it may/may not be an incredible value for you - depending on your expections/budget.

[Tim Walsh]

It had a p/d ratio of something like 85 (170 total HP?) It's a huge amount for such a little engine. I think the asking price all depends on the condition of the engine. If it's running it's worth alot more. For instance I have a 69T longblock but it's only worth about $300 since it's basicly a core motor, but a full 69T longblock is probably worth more than $1000 if it runs (just a guess).

Rich, I think it would be fairly easy for you to switch engines since it's almost a direct swap, including exhaust. (from an armchair standpoint)

It all depends on the condition of the engine.

[RichMason]

Thanks for the comments. It hasn't run in 10 years and it has wasps nests in the intakes. I think an MFI rebuild is the minimum. My exhaust would switch over but I would be better off selling my engine complete. I'm going to talk to Geoff today or tomorrow about it. You are right though, it would be a bolt in swap but it would need an oil cooler, which is missing from the car (another bad omen).

[Rot 911]

For what it would cost, unless you just want a '69 engine in your car, I would be looking at a 3.0 or 3.2 swap. On the other hand, don't assume just because the engine has been sitting for 10 years that you will absolutely have to rebuild it. Probably, but not absolutely.

[Neilk]

Rich,

Which oil cooler are you talking about? The engine mounted one or the fender one? You don't need to worry about the fender mounted one as not all 2.4L S engines had them.

[Tim Walsh]

neilk, it's a 2.0 engine but I think you're right about that. It's borderline cooler/no cooler. The 2.4S came with one but the 2.4E didn't (that I know of) the 2.4E made more torque but less HP than the 2.0S so it's close.

[Wayne 962]

Yikes! An engine like that is probably only worth $500, unless it is *the* original engine that was originally in your car. First of all, the 1969 engines had the worst of the magnesium cases. Since they were only 2.0L displacement, they didn't stress them as much as the 2.7 engines, but the fact is that they are the un-reinforced, non-intermediate bearing cases. Read my book, and you will find out why the 1969 case is probably the one case to stay away from out of all the years (1965-89).

In a nutshell, the intermediate shaft ran in the bare magnesium, which wore away the case. You need to modify ($$$) the case in order for it to accept intermediate shaft bearings. This is on top of the other case repairs and mods ($$$) that you need to do.

Don't get taken, this engine is worth maybe $500 to $1000 MAX, because there is going to be a tremendous amount of work that will have to go into it. You will probably spend another $6K at least before you get it running up to par...

As for your engine, to convert to 'S' specs all you need to do is:

- Swap pistons
- Regrind Cams
- Recurve Distributor (sometimes you can even get away without this)
- Recal pump (sometimes you can get away without it)

That's all! Your E motor can be easily upgraded to 2.0 specs. The 'T' motors are quite a bit more difficult.

-Wayne

[RichMason]

Wayne,

Thanks for the input. I will refer the seller to this thread.

[redducati750]

right.

[sundaypunch]

$500 sounds a bit harsh . I would think the seller could part it out on ebay and do quite well with it. I'd give a couple of bills for the shroud since I need one. What would the MFI setup bring, even needing a rebuild?

[Wayne 962]

2.0L 'S' MFI? 1969 case? Yes, parting it out would probably bring more, but you can say that about almost any engine.

If this thing has been sitting for 10 years, the *whole* setup needs to be gone over. The pump and throttle boddies all need to be rebuilt (most likely), which will cost about $1500 or more...

One thing I forgot to mention, I think that the change to the intermediate shaft bearings took place at the end of the year, so the 1969 case if it's a late one might have the bearings already installed (need the late-style intermediate shaft too).

Too much of a big question mark in my opinion...

The most I typically pay for question mark magnesium motors is $500. That way, I know there's a good chance that there's at least $500 worth of good parts there. Core, question mark aluminum motors fetch a bit more ($1000 or more) because you know those cases are pretty much bulletproof...

-Wayne

[redducati750]

sitting 18 months not 10 yrs

[redducati750]

wayne im not sure what you have been smoking but let me know, i have some friends who would love to get there hands on it. Everybody, if by chance you come across a 69S engine let me know, i will buy them till i run of of storage space.

[redducati750]

@ 500$

[jluetjen]

Wayne, for Rich to get the full benefit of the S cams he'll also need to change the heads (or port his E heads), throttle bodies and stacks.

[Wayne 962]

"It hasn't run in 10 years and it has wasps nests in the intakes."

I just respond to what I read, and I just disperse the facts. I know of a good rebuilder who has a 2.4S rebuilt for sale for $4500. Something like that would seem like a much better deal to me.

I stand by my comments, and there's no need for personal insults or jabs either...

-Wayne