83 911 SC engine blow, looking for solution

[domanows]

Earlier I posted a message about oil and fuel in my airbox. I just checked the oil and it is very low and appears extraordinarily thick with a yellow tint. It was full this morning.

This sucks! After performing a bunch a fair amount of preventative maintenance this winter, plus new seats, etc, It appears it was not a great use of time and money.

Heres the question... What the heck do I do now. Its has 150K miles on it, would it make more sense to have it rebuilt or get a crate engine put in. Furthermore, if I am going to get a new engine, can a stuff a later model turbo engine in?

I am in Buffalo NY and although there are some nice guys at the dealership, I don't think I'll get the car back for a year if I task them with this job. I am trying to find a competent management around here. If anyone has any advise short of jumping off a bridge, I would really, really appreciate it. I know this is gonna be pricey which is fine, it will be cheaper than loosing my sanity.

Thanks, Matt

[Tim Walsh]

lol I'll bet the NOVA guys would do it in a weekend for some beer (The engine swap not the rebuild)

[john walker's workshop]

why not drain the oil, replace the filter, put in 10 quarts, and see if it's any better. that yellow stuff is probably just oil vapor mixed with normal condensation. yes a turbo engine will fit just fine, with minor mods.

[MotoSook]

why do you think the motor is blown?

[BW911]

Tim's right. The NOVA gang would love another engine swap project, provided there's beer in it. Engine doesn't have to be blown.

[Bill Douglas]

The yellow stuff sounds like antifreeze from the radiator

Do what John Walker says before you let anyone look at it or take your money.

[jabb]

Was the car warm and running when you checked the oil ??

[ruf-porsche]

It's an 83 SC so why should there be anti freeze in the oil. If the owner was dumb enough to put anti freeze in a 911 motor I don't think he should be driving a 911.
He should get something less exotic. That something that the little women would do and that's why she doesn't drive the Porsche or the Lotuses.

I agreed with JW drain the oil, fill it back up and start her up.

[domanows]

Souk and John, the reason I think engine is blown is because of the amount of oil I found in the airbox coupled with the weird white/yellow colored oil that smells like gas that was in my oil resovoir.

However.... the crank pully still turns so nothing is seized. Here is my plan

1. Change oil like john said
2. Change Fuel filter
3. Lean out CIS

I am still going to get it into a shop around here ASAP to have a leak down test down because the amount of oil I found in the airbox shouldn t have happened.

Thanks All,
Matt

[ruf-porsche]

Oil in the airbox is a due to blowby. Check the crankcase breather.

[UTKarmann_Ghia]

I'm not sure that I would start messing with the fuel filter and mixture. What would the fuel filter have to do with this? You'd just be adding more variables to the mix, making it harder to find the real issue. Stick with the oil plan for a bit before moving on. And stop using the "blown" word...ur freakin me out!

[Jdub]

I have to agree, refill the oil, change the filter just to be sure, and absolutely, positively, check ALL of the hoses you rehooked.

You are going to have to clean up the air box as well. Do this:
= Remove plenum (kidney shaped thing). Simple green the inside of this.
= Check air filter: if oiled toss and replace.
= GENTLY use paper towel and Simple Green to clean top and bottom of sensor plate (now exposed thanks to plenum being off). Clean floor of airbox as well.
= Clean oil from throttle body as needed.
= Remove hose at point just under oil cap. This is the hose that goes behind the engine. Drain all the crap out of this hose - there will be plenty.

Reattach everything and snug it up. Put in no more than 8quarts after draining tank and sump. You will NOT be getting any oil out of the closed loop that represents the therm-to-cooler-back-to-thermo. No big deal there.

Turn the heat off. You don't want that stinky old oil in your cabin if it smokes and it probably will.

I also have some wonderment about the way your engine is or is not breathing. Better minds than mine can comment on that.

John

[cstreit]

You will Always get some yellow-ee oil stuff somewhere if there is moisture in the oil. I always called it "scrum" and it means you're not driving hard and long enough to burn it out. I got 1/2 qt of the stuff out of my racecar overflow from repeated cold starts and short idling with no driving...

[Dan Owens]

Matt,

I would agree with most everyone else here. I don't think you're engine is "blown" based on what you have described. Oil in the oil box doesn't come from a blown engine. It's coming from somewhere else up stream like an overfill or the breather lines. Watery fluid in the oil is typically moisture. Drain your oil and put on a new filter. Put in 10 quarts to start. Clean out the air box. Check all the lines that you hooked up. And then go from there.

Dan O

[old_skul]

....However, you do have options if your engine *is* ready for a rebuild. (We don't like to say "blown" around here. )

Option 1 would be a full rebuild. Call it $7,000+, performed by a certified Porsche mechanic.

Option 2 would be a crate engine from the factory, as you mentioned. I'm not sure of pricing or availability on these, but I have heard you can get them, but for a premium: $15K+ for a 0 miles Factory SC engine. Wow!

Option 3 would be an engine swap-in from another car. You can get unrebuilt SC engines for $4,500 or so, and it would drop right in.

Option 4 - and by far the most popular among this rabid group of SC and Carrera owners - is the 3.6 transplant. Essentially, you drop in a 250+HP 3.6 911 engine from a later model (964 or 993). These engines are extremely strong and durable (if the proper upgrades are performed). This is a $8,000+ option - you'll spend $7k on the engine alone getting it shipped in, and then however much you want for a mechanic's help. The end result, however, is stunning.

Option 5, the Turbo motor route, is possible and you'll have a strong running car. However, the Turbo motor requires more maintenance, care and feeding, so it's not as popular to do around these parts. I do know of guys who have done this and again, the results are stunning. With that much power on tap (350+HP) you had better plan on upgrading brakes, suspension, and tires as well.

Good luck. Hopefully it's just an oil overfill! But if you do major work, the overwhelming response you'll get out of this crowd is to perform a 3.6 transplant.

[Superman]

Yep. Don't make a huge, unnecessary mistake. Change oil and filters, clean things up and go for a drive. Have a beer. Relax.

[Tim Walsh]

Mark, what about option 6.

Option 6. If you're mechanically inclinded you can do it yourself for between $3000+. You will need a nice CLEAN working space to do this, reliable machine shop, alot of patience and a willingness to do it right the first time.

[domanows]

Thanks soo much. The word blown was pre-mature. Jdub, I am following your hints, the last thing to do is clean out the hose behind the oil cap.

Once I start the car up again, how long should it smoke before it cleans itself out?

Matt

[emcon5]

Originally posted by ruf-porsche
Oil in the airbox is a due to blowby. Check the crankcase breather.

Normally Oil in the airbox is due to overfilling.

The "full" level is halfway between the lines on the dipstick, more than that, and you risk overflow into the airbox.

The shop I bought my car from did this to me twice, and it makes a HUGE mess.

Remember, oil level is only checked with the engine running, on level ground, and at operating temp.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, an oil change, it takes about 10 quarts.

Tom

[ruf-porsche]

Hey ECOM5

I think your and JW remarks of 10 quarts is the best advice given for this thread. Has domanows ever change the oil to his P-car before?

Newbie usually make the mistake of putting to much oil in. Was the engine running when you check the oil? Almost all cars requires the engine to be off in order to check the oil. With the Porsche you need to have the engine running so that the oil can be scavenge from the sump and return to the oil tank. The dipstick will read low if the engine sat over night and you didn't warm it up prior to checking the dip stick.

I hope that when you saw the dip stick was low on oil, you didn't throw a couple of quarts into the oil tank to top it off. Than you really over filled the engine.

I usually put nine quarts in, start up the engine, let it get warm and then take a look at the dip stick. It's always easier to add oil to the P-car instead of trying to remove oil.

Sound like you pulled a Wu. That what I tell my wife when she does something stupid.

82 911SC Targa