New A-Arms rotated differently

[ausgezeichnet]

Finally got one of my A-Arms off and compared it to the new A-Arm and the ends seem to rotated more that the new ones. It that normal?

[garment]

New doesn’t look right to me, I def didn’t have mine parallel to the plane of the legs of the a-arm. Check Elephant Racing’s site for the bushing install procedure.

[brp914]

Good luck gettin' that sucker mounted.

[john walker's workshop]

The bushings twist just fine. You'll figure it out.

[dannobee]

Yup, you'll figure it out. The control arm moves up and down during normal suspension travel. The bushing bracket stays bolted to the body.

[Jonny042]

The rubber bushings aren't actually bonded or vulcanized or anything. Just secure the arm in a workmate or something and find a way to twist the bushings so they line up nicely with the mounts in the body. You might have to press the bushings together as well, the assembly might be a little too long to bolt to the body, I have found.

Don't get me started on the quality of parts these days. Everything seems to need some sort of work.

[ausgezeichnet]

John,

Do mean putting the A-Arm in a vice and twisting the bushings to the proper angles? Any tips for doing this?

[Walt Fricke]

Err, just do it? Tips?


You just need some leverage. You could have someone stand on control arm part out by the ball joint, while you use some strong metal rod or something through one of the holes in the front mount to twist.

Install the rear, put a prop under the front, and stand on the control arm part.

You might be able to mount the new arm in the car and get one of the front bolts started. Tightening it until you can get the second going might work.

Like John said, you'll figure it out. This isn't a technique heavy thing.

I once replaced a broken exhaust valve spring at the track. I had the tool and spare springs, and got the broken one out OK, but couldn't get the new double spring in for the life of me. A mechanic took pity on me and had it in in a flash. I still don't know how. This isn't that kind of thing.

You have the front of the car on jack stands.

[Flojo]

it will twist, no worry.
it has to as car moves up and down over a bump.

why did you buy a new one?
clean/blast old one, remove old bushings, get new ones, powdercoat A arm, mount, install. done.
except some time consumed it'l cost you a third compared to the purchase with unknown rubber bushings.

m2cts

[r lane]

Our host or elephant Racing has a video and it shows the angle at which you can set the end piece. When you replace the bushings obviously they are at that point not bonded, but I don't know about a new arm. I think the theory is that the force of the cars weight will lock everything together and the rubber's elasticity will do the work. When replacing control arm bushings on certain cars where the rubber is bonded to its flange, you want to put the suspension in its set position before locking everything down. Bob

[Driven97]

Pretty sure the way the new one is set up will actually be 'better" (less preload), assuming you run the car as low as most of us do.

[E Sully]

Forward to about7:30 in this video.
https://youtu.be/85-Enx4bKUE
Also A Arm Bushing

[gomezoneill]

I use a long punch (2 foot) stick it in the hole and twist or a pipe wrench with the a arm in a vice.

[Canada Kev]

Originally Posted by Flojo

it will twist, no worry.
it has to as car moves up and down over a bump.

I'm pretty sure the rubber bushings aren't supposed to rotate around the A-arm and twist. They grip both the arm and the mounts rather well. When the suspension moves up and down, the bushings stick to the arms and mounts and deform and stretch. That's why the rubber bushings add to the spring rate a little bit.

In this situation, to get them where you want, they'll move with some leverage, the bushings will twist a bit but it'll take some effort and they'll have to move further than what normal suspension action would be to get them to twist some.

[gomezoneill]

Originally Posted by canada kev

i'm pretty sure the rubber bushings aren't supposed to rotate around the a-arm and twist. They grip both the arm and the mounts rather well. When the suspension moves up and down, the bushings stick to the arms and mounts and deform and stretch. That's why the rubber bushings add to the spring rate a little bit.

In this situation, to get them where you want, they'll move with some leverage, the bushings will twist a bit but it'll take some effort and they'll have to move further than what normal suspension action would be to get them to twist some.

wrong!

[winders]

Originally Posted by Canada Kev

I'm pretty sure the rubber bushings aren't supposed to rotate around the A-arm and twist. They grip both the arm and the mounts rather well. When the suspension moves up and down, the bushings stick to the arms and mounts and deform and stretch. That's why the rubber bushings add to the spring rate a little bit.

Wow. How can you think that is how the suspension works.

[David Inc.]

Originally Posted by winders

Wow. How can you think that is how the suspension works.

That's actually how both the front and rear bushings are designed to operate. The rubber deforms instead of slipping.

I remember the rears are bonded to the shaft, but I don't remember if the fronts are as well. There's enough friction there to keep them in place though.

[winders]

Wow, color me ignorant. No wonder I hate rubber bushings and much prefer heim joints! The rubber bushing actually stretches which means it adds rate and likely a variable rate which may or may not be consistent. That's okay for a street car....but not for a car from which you want the best handling.

[Canada Kev]

No worries. If we didn't learn anything it would be a wasted day.

When one uses poly-bronze or sphericals or 935 type heim joints in the suspension, the spring rates are reduced. They all but eliminate stiction in the arm movement. If the dampers, torsion bars and anti-roll bars were taken out of the equation, as in disconnected or removed, the a-arms would more or less fall, or move with very little pressure, straight down. If you did that with rubber bushings, they would stick straight out to the sides.

"Well, that's just the bit of friction of the rubber on the arms or mounts", you say...

So try this: remove the dampers and TBs again and put some weight on the arm or lever it down somehow. When you release the pressure, the arm will spring back up to exactly where it was before. If those bushings turned on the arms and mounts, the arm would stay exactly where you left it when it was released. Those rubber bushings deform and stretch and when the pressure is removed will return to their original position, lifting the a-arm back to horizontal.


The rubber bushings are great for isolating the suspension and reducing NVH even if they add some additional spring rate and stiction. Same reason people like Rebel and Elephant developed their bushings/bearings with poly or some other 'shock absorbing' material to reduce the harshness as compared to heim joints.

[Walt Fricke]

Replacing the rubber bushings with Delrin bushings used to be one of the first things a guy would do to improve handling. The Delrin wouldn't deform as much as rubber, so the bushings kept the A Arm position more constant, which is what you want for suspension tuning. In the mid-80s urethane bushings were what most installed. Improving handling generally involves a bit of degradation of ride comfort. I installed needle bearings as bushings on the A arm - no friction to speak of. But that was on a car which was progressing more and more toward track only use. I'd done enough to it already that I can't say as I noticed a worse ride with the needles, or the polybronzes in the rear. The best way to improve the ride of a track prepared car for the street is to run high profile street tires.