Love for the unloved slim body G: Upgrades!

[morini]

Five years ago my brother fooled me into selling him the pristine 1984 3.2 Carrera (231hp) that I had fooled him into selling me five years earlier. We´ve been treating each other like this for nearly half a century now:-)

Being without an old 911 took its tolls, so I ended up ignoring my own rule of not buying a vehicle without documented history and correct paperwork. It was a US spec 1977 2.7 911S jazzed up to sell with incorrect Carrera livery (another rule I broke; a car pretending to be something that it is not), custom BF Torino seats, Momo Prototipo, SSI exhaust and all the thermal reactor junk removed. It came with 1 key and nothing else. Alarm bells should have rung, but the car was tight, apparently rust free and ran strong. More importantly my wife fell in love with it, so I had to use the opportunity to get a yet another car without risking domestic trouble.

She still loves it, it still runs strong, starts fine cold and warm, idles smooth, oil temperature never exceeds 200 F (dashboard reading) despite not having a front oil cooler and leaks only when it has been parked for months.

Since my brother has been talking about selling the 3.2 (the idiot!) I have not done any of my planned upgrades to the 2.7 since I thought maybe I´ll buy it back and sell the 2.7. In my view the 3.2 has always been the classic (post 74) 911 to have.

Well - the 3.2 is now sold and I decided not to buy it. I have been enjoying the 2.7 on new tyres the last weekends and I must say I prefer it´s nimble handling and its lightfootedness (is that a word?). It´s more like driving the earlier 911s. I even prefer it´s slim hips, as this is one of the few which has not been "upgraded" to SC hips. Of course I miss the brutal power of the 3.2. But with the 2.7 I have fun at speeds which are admittedly illegal, but not prison-and-no-licence-for-months-illegal, which I mostly drove the 3.2 at. Yes, I am getting old and I have a family now:-)

So: This 2.7 stays and it is time to make the best out of it. This is where you knowledgeable guys come in:-) The car is not driven on track, but mostly full throttle on curvy (and sometimes very bumpy) mountain roads like these (yes, I am a lucky bastard)



Engine:
I have been through different scenarios involving engine swaps, carburettors, EFI etc, but have concluded that I will keep the sweet engine with the crisp magnesium engine note and update it with 964 or 20/21 cams + JE pistons some time in the future when it needs an overhaul anyway. It would simply be a shame to pull such a sweet running engine apart now. I will also keep the CIS since it is a stable, economical system when it is dialed in right and this car is also used for holiday trips where such boring considerations must be taken. It runs strong between 3500 and 5500, but over and under that not much is going on. Especially coming out of hairpins I miss the torque of the 3.2 and often find myself fishing for the elusive 1st gear. I know that not much can be done without upping the compression, but according to internet wisdom there are gains to be had from SC profiled cams even with the original pistons. The treads about this on this forum has been on the 150 hp engine, leading to the first question:

1. Does anybody know if a SC cam also has an effect on the 165 hp engine?

At some point somebody has removed the thermal reactors and upgraded to the Carrera cam tensioners. I also hope that the engine has had timeserts, given that it still runs fine after all these years.

2. Are there any tell tale signs that show if such an upgrade has been made when no documentation is available?

While running strong the engine does sometimes misfire under 3000 and pops on decellaration. On forums this seems normal for CIS cars, especially with the SSI exhausts. I had the CIS apart last year so I guess it is leak free. The plan i therefore to swap the original blue Permatune for a Classic Retrofit CD+, as I have read some bad stories about the Permatune.

3. Even with the old (blue and presumably better) Permatune box, is this a worth wile upgrade?

4. At what performance level does it make sense to install a front oil cooler (I live in Norway)?

Power is always fun, but given the roads I use, handling and a faster gearbox is of bigger importance.

Handling
The car runs on Vredestein Sprint Classic 185/70 R15 and has Bilstein HD shocks (91134104230 and 91134104130). I could probably use more grip on the rear in the wet, but on dry roads I am far from the limit with the power I have on tap now. The car squeaks over speed bumps, so I plan to do the whole elephant racing rubber bushing kit.

5. What other handling upgrades would be sensible on a hard driven road going slim G?

Gearbox:
915 gearboxes are like fishing for crabs, but I have gotten used to it. It is however not blonde-proof, so my wife is always a little nervous when she drives. First plan is therefore a new set of shift bushings. After that; Seine or Wevo.

6. Is the Wevo (at 4x the price) really that much better than the Seine?

7. Does the Wevo shift coupler transmit more noise than the standard item (I have heard rumours)?

Sorry for the long post, but if you have read this far, chances are you have some knowledge about old 911s. Any tips to make this car even better are much appreciated.

Stay safe!

[morini]

[RDM]

That has to be the craziest road I've ever seen!

Consider the JWest shifter as well. People who have them like them.

Beyond that, let's wait for the experts.

[LUFTKUL]

#3: I wouldn't mess with it if there are no issues. I had some random no start problems so I had to figure it out.

I had a frustrating time with my '77 and the stock Permatune it came with. I was able to borrow a Bosch 3 pin and all issues went away.

But instead of buying an expensive and old Bosch unit I cleaned up some wiring, replaced points with Petronix ignitor, and put in a MSD Streetfire. No problems after that.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by morini

So what part of Florida is that?

It looks like a fun road. Europe somewhere?

[morini]

Sorry for the double picture post, but the picture would not load at first.

This is Norway and yes, it is a very fun road. Especially going down with overheated drum brakes on old cars/motorcycles. Luckily these days I drive old Porsches, so brakes are good:-)

[4flyboy]

Love my Seine.....I have a JWest sitting on the shelf.....I keep telling myself, but the Seine is dialed in

Those are some sick roads....

[Solamar]

Originally Posted by morini

Sorry for the double picture post, but the picture would not load at first.

This is Norway and yes, it is a very fun road. Especially going down with overheated drum brakes on old cars/motorcycles. Luckily these days I drive old Porsches, so brakes are good:-)

Beautiful car. Wish I could be more help but I'm completely distracted by that road!

Do they allow two way traffic? Looks like a single lane. And that tunnel at the bottom... Too cool!

[fanaudical]

Beautiful road - that's the stuff I strive to find and drive.

Couple of answers based on experience with my '75:

#1 - Don't know.

#2 - I think it's possible (but difficult) to see Timecerts in the case from the bottom of the motor. Otherwise you need to start taking things apart...

#3 - My opinion - A lot of perceived CIS issues are often ignition issues. I would verify points are good, distributor has zero play, plug wires don't arc to ground, and plugs are gapped properly, timing is correct, advance is working, vacuum retard (if you have that) isn't broken. Next up is to verify no vacuum leaks and no leaks in the airbox. Follow that up with pressure check and verify the WUR is functioning correctly. Upgrading from the Permatune can't hurt (but might not help).

#4 - Front oil cooler necessity really depends on your ambient temps in your area. That said, anything to help thermal management on the mag-case motors is a good upgrade. My 2.7 with a front Mocal cooler never gets to 210F even at highway speeds on 95F days here in Oregon, but I did install a larger-capacity oil pump during the rebuild.

#5 - I went way overboard on my suspension rebuild. In retrospect new ER rubber, lowering to Euro height, and fresh Bilsteins would have been satisfactory.

#6 & 7 - No experience.

[ramonesfreak]

favorite upgrade for me so far is a rennshift shifter

[tirwin]

#7 - I just installed the Wevo PSJ. I have had the Seine GSK for a long time. The Wevo was an upgrade. The instructions said it *may* increase noise. I didn’t notice any difference.

[Flojo]

Originally Posted by tirwin

#7 - I just installed the Wevo PJS. ... The Wevo was an upgrade. The instructions said it *may* increase noise. I didn’t notice any difference.

this. WEVO. Shifter and Coupler (EUR 600,-). best combo out there!

or get the 915 spring from Karsten to start with (EUR 40,- ?) <= click

[75 911s]

Middies are very loved by their owners!



To answer a few of your questions, cooler was a priority for me, but I'm in an extremely hot climate. I think you are OK without given your weather.

I installed the WEVO and PSJ. They aren't THAT much better, but you are paying a premium for looks and exclusivity. I removed sound deadening material, so I can't speak to noise transmitted.

[mrrolleyes]

i have a 76 that HAD a 2.7 with no cooler. i never had issues even on hot days here in PA with the exception of getting stuck in traffic when it was 85+ out. otherwise temps were always under control.

i have a jwest shifter with the stomski coupler and i love it.

check you cap, rotor plugs and wires first. i did have a breakup issue down low also and it ended up going away with new injectors.

my car had a permatune box but not the classic retro version. its currently for sale

and like duane said us mid. year guys are a special breed. happy motoring.

[Bill Douglas]

Good color too.

[BXR12NT]

Originally Posted by mrrolleyes

i have a 76 that HAD a 2.7 with no cooler. i never had issues even on hot days here in PA with the exception of getting stuck in traffic when it was 85+ out. otherwise temps were always under control.

i have a jwest shifter with the stomski coupler and i love it.

check you cap, rotor plugs and wires first. i did have a breakup issue down low also and it ended up going away with new injectors.

my car had a permatune box but not the classic retro version. its currently for sale

and like duane said us mid. year guys are a special breed. happy motoring.

The exact twin of my 77 I sold in 2002 damn I miss that car


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[morini]

Thank you for all your replies. I guess I will check all ignition related parts, possibly upgrade to a Classic Retrofit CD+, change the gear linkage bushings, upgrade to Elephant Racing bushings and see how pleased I am from there. Yesterday I realized I probably need a new exhaust for my ´71 Targa, so budget is suddenly reduced:-(


@Solamar: Yes, it is two way traffic. Can get exciting when meeting a tourist bus in a corner. Easier on a motorcycle:-)

@mmrolleyes: That is a beautiful colour! Are those 16" wheels?

@75 991s: Beautiful picture, nice to see another slim G with the ducktail. I have been thinking about dropping my ducktail since I sometimes think it is a little too big on the slim cars seen from behind, but from the side it is just cool. Do you wheels ever scrape? What size ist that?

[mrrolleyes]

yees they are 16x6&7

[morini]

Two more questions regarding handling: Does it make any sense to upgrade to Turbo Tie Rods and a Strut Brace on a road going classic 911?

The roads I drive a very much bumpier than a race track so keeping the struts in place is probably more needed there (at the expense of luggage room:-()

[ClickClickBoom]

Originally Posted by morini

Two more questions regarding handling: Does it make any sense to upgrade to Turbo Tie Rods and a Strut Brace on a road going classic 911?

The roads I drive a very much bumpier than a race track so keeping the struts in place is probably more needed there (at the expense of luggage room:-()

I still miss my '75. Turbo tie rods make the steering much more precise. Strut bar you will not notice.