'83 911SC Targa - Inheritance Story 20 Years in the Making

[J-Gel]

Hi all!

As I've been reading up on lots of threads and articles here at PP, I wanted to introduce myself and share my story, as I'm not only new to PP, but also new to working on my 911.

Ever since I was old enough to remember, my father had a Guards Red 1983 911SC Targa in our garage that he would tinker on as his nightly project after work. I would always watch him work before being sent off to bed, but being that age I unfortunately didn't have the interest or foresight that I should be learning more than simply hanging out and watching. The only thing I did learn from him about the car was how to drive it, learning to drive stick while sitting on a stuffed cardboard box while the interior was completely stripped (as he reupholstered the interior himself). He had done a lot of mechanical work as well, none of which I'd be able to say now what was done. In my early teen years, my father passed away, and subsequently the 911 was left essentially untouched in the garage ever since. I did start the car weekly to give it a good rev but after a year or two of that, a fuel leak sprung and flooded the garage. Still in high school, I didn't have the knowledge or funds to repair it, and there it sat, for nearly two decades....

I was never really prepared to bring it to a shop without having any clue of the extent of the work that needed to be done, as tempting as it was.. A few months ago, a close friends stepfather offered to bring it into his garage and work on it with me in his limited spare time, he used to work often rebuilding Porsches for customers and himself, however has moved on to different specializations since.













So far, together with him, we've:
- Pulled the fuel tank and brought it to be pressure and chemical cleaned and recoated
- Ran new fuel lines (definitely worked up our 4-letter-word dictionary on this job)
- Replaced fuel pump & fuel filter
- Replaced battery and negative ground cable
- Changed engine oil and oil filter
- Removed spark plugs
- Replaced hood and deck lid struts

Where I stand now:
When we tried to fire it up, it lasted about a minute of trying to run as we manually introduced ethanol. Nothing without that however, we weren't getting fuel to the engine.

As a separate thought, we decided to add some oil to the engine, and after further attempts to turn it over, the cylinders didn't sound like they were firing as they did the first time we tried, and we found we weren't getting spark to the the spark plugs. We came to the conclusion we overfilled the oil and flooded the plugs. We pulled out the existing plugs, tested a new plug once attached to its wire, but found we still were not getting any spark to it. Before we could do anything more, he was moving his shop and wasn't able to bring my car to the new garage at the moment, so now I have it back at home in my garage, and am now planning to do what I can on my own.

(The garage moved out, waiting for the tow back to the house)



It's not quite in the cards for me to 'open a tab' at a shop to allow them to do whatever they find needs to be done, because I know to get it in perfect shape will take A LOT, but I also would love to be able to at least get the engine running, and then I can decide to do segmented jobs from there. After all, the car was drive-able when my dad was still tinkering with it, but I know time is not friendly to these cars when they don't get the TLC they want and need. I'm happy to do any work that I can do and learn myself..

Whats next:
I plan to replace the spark plugs & wires, plus distributor cap / rotor to see if that fixes my spark issue.
As for my fuel problem..
After some research and amazing pages I found in the How-to article pages here on PP, I have been considering cleaning the injectors and replacing the injector O-rings and sleeves. Does anyone have any input if the injectors themselves should be replaced or if cleaning should do the trick? From everything I've seen so far, I know typical injectors can be activated once removed by hooking them up to a battery to pump cleaner through them, however the injectors in this car don't seem to have those electrical inserts to activate them independently like others do. Does anyone have a link / resource for cleaning the injectors on these cars? Or perhaps you'd recommend replacing them entirely? The How-To article mentions to 'clean them with carb cleaner' but I don't know if that simply means submerging them or pumping it through somehow.
Also unsure if I'm getting ahead of myself and should be considering a pressure test, replacing the injection lines, the accumulator, or anything else before looking to the injectors.

Anyhow, if you've made it to the bottom of this post, I appreciate you! I'm looking forward to reading further here in the forum, learning A TON, sharing my progress with you all and hopefully finally getting this sentimental beauty running. It's definitely been a long time coming...

(If this happens to sound familiar, I posted this in another thread a short bit ago but found it would be more appropriate to start my own thread, so I deleted the original post after just a few hours, apologies in advance to the few who already read it in that short time)

[sugarwood]

When we tried to fire it up, it lasted about a minute of trying to run as we manually introduced ethanol.

If you do not have spark, how did it run for one minute?
You should clarify exactly what you mean in that sentence abbove.

Should he focus on getting spark first?

Great work on keeping the car so clean while parking it for 20 years.

[J-Gel]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

If you do not have spark, how did it run for one minute?
You should clarify exactly what you mean in that sentence abbove.

Great work on keeping the car so clean while parking it for 20 years.

Thanks sugarwood, I'll check and see where I need to clarify that.

They were firing during that first minute mentioned, but then in subsequent attempts, after topping off with oil, we found they no longer were firing, which we then figured we overfilled the oil. Upon removing the plugs we confirmed via sigh and smell test. Since then, we drained the oil, added 8 quarts, and connected one new plug to a wire to see if it was sparking, but it still was not.

Hopefully this clarifies it a bit better.

[Mark Salvetti]

That car is in gorgeous shape. Will be great to get it running, I think you are probably close.

Looking at your engine photo - where is the coil?

Mark

[J-Gel]

Originally Posted by Mark Salvetti

That car is in gorgeous shape. Will be great to get it running, I think you are probably close.

Looking at your engine photo - where is the coil?

Mark

Thanks, Mark! I hope so!

I know its not the best engine compartment shot, I'll have to take a clearer photo but this should help for the time being
here

[boyt911sc]

Focus on bringing the car home and worry later about getting your car to run. Do you like to work on the car? If yes, that’s a good start. If you don’t like to work on cars, then you will be paying a lot of money to shops or mechanics that hardly understand your CIS.

There is plenty of help available in this forum. Do you have a place where you could park and work on the car? This should be your priority. When was the last time you had the motor running? Get some reference manuals for your reading. The Bentley SC Manual is a good book to have. Stay safe.

Tony

[J-Gel]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

Focus on bringing the car home and worry later about getting your car to run. Do you like to work on the car? If yes, that’s a good start. If you don’t like to work on cars, then you will be paying a lot of money to shops or mechanics that hardly understand your CIS.

There is plenty of help available in this forum. Do you have a place where you could park and work on the car? This should be your priority. When was the last time you had the motor running? Get some reference manuals for your reading. The Bentley SC Manual is a good book to have. Stay safe.

Tony

Thanks Boyt, yes the car is home currently and garaged. My first solo job, as small as it was, was to replace the struts for the hood and deck lid so I can be ready to tackle whats next without having to worry about knocking over my makeshift props.

I've heard the Bentley Manual is the gold standard, so far I already have the Haynes Owners Workshop Manual and their Guide to Purchase and DIY Restoration. I'll start with those and see if they are comprehensive enough for my purposes or if I'll need to pick up a copy of the Bentley.

[SkunkWorks]

Get the Bentley. Way easier to follow than the Haynes.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by J-Gel

Thanks Boyt, yes the car is home currently and garaged. My first solo job, as small as it was, was to replace the struts for the hood and deck lid so I can be ready to tackle whats next without having to worry about knocking over my makeshift props.

I've heard the Bentley Manual is the gold standard, so far I already have the Haynes Owners Workshop Manual and their Guide to Purchase and DIY Restoration. I'll start with those and see if they are comprehensive enough for my purposes or if I'll need to pick up a copy of the Bentley.

JG,

Do you have a CIS pressure gauge kit? You need one to be able to do a meaningful testing. Without a pressure gauge, we will be wasting a lot of our time looking for the problem/s. First thing first:
a). You need to learn how to manually run the FP with ignition switch @ ON position (not START). You could do it by disconnecting the air sensor plate switch connector or the FP relay socket (terminals #30 & 87A).
b). Learn how to correctly install a CIS gauge between the FD & WUR to measure CCP (cold control pressure) and WCP (control pressure).
c). Get familiarized with the different acronyms commonly used in CIS discussions.

And don’t be reluctant to ask questions. There are plenty of guys that could help and guide you to get this car to run like it should but will require good communication and feedback. Keep us posted.

Tony

[J-Gel]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

JG,

Do you have a CIS pressure gauge kit? You need one to be able to do a meaningful testing. Without a pressure gauge, we will be wasting a lot of our time looking for the problem/s. First thing first:
a). You need to learn how to manually run the FP with ignition switch @ ON position (not START). You could do it by disconnecting the air sensor plate switch connector or the FP relay switch (terminals #30 & 87A).
b). Learn how to correctly install a CIS gauge between the FD & WUR to measure CCP (cold control pressure) and WCP (control pressure).
c). Get familiarized with the different acronyms commonly used in CIS discussions.

And don’t be reluctant to ask questions. There are plenty of guys that could help and guide you to get this car to run like it should but will require good communication and feedback. Keep us posted.

Tony

I appreciate this Tony!

I'm reading further threads to indeed brush up on my terminology and other members experiences and am finding some great info (including the comprehensive @tirwin guide https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/758788-cis-troubleshooting-dummies.html, I'm also interested in the baby bottle injector test linked there, but won't get ahead of myself), while happening to come across more and more of your posts on the topic as well!
I don't have a fuel pressure gauge yet, but it seems to be my next purchase, along with my Bentley manual to interpret the readings. I'm seeing a wide range of kits in terms of included fittings, hoses, and price. Do you have a recommendation on a specific kit or what I need to be looking for in one?

Thank you!

Justin

[aigel]

Cleaning the injectors would be the last thing I'd focus on here.

First, I'd get spark back, starting at the coil. If that's fixed, then worry about fuel. My bet is that the fuel system is still full of foul gas and needs to be run / cranked longer to get into some fresh gas in place of the vinegar that's probably in there now.

To do a lot of your testing, you'll want a healthy battery and a charger, so you can do some test / cranking sessions without draining the battery.

Again, I'd be taking it easy pulling things apart at this point, especially being a noob.

This would be a good opportunity (past COVID) to throw some burgers on the grill and ask a couple Pelicans by on the weekend.

Last but not least, if this is overwhelming, I can't see this cost more than a couple grand to get sorted by a good shop. Then you'll have a running car and can work on smaller bits as needed.

The interior looks great, that's for sure. Also, these cars do NOT need constant tinkering. Once you have gone through a car, they will need very little and can offer a lot of enjoyment. Amazing story and great that you can continue where your dad left off.

G

[J-Gel]

Thanks G, thats encouraging, and I appreciate the kind words!

I've got my spark parts en route so that will be tested soon enough..

I did forget to mention originally, I do have a new battery in the car (updated original post to reflect that now), and have a consumer battery charger on hand with three power settings, up to 75A, hopefully that'll do the trick? I do know how quickly the battery may drain as I imagine I'll be cranking for a good bit but unsure if I need one of the shop-grade 200A tallboys.

So far this all seems doable, I did build up a lot more comfort working on the car the last few months with my friends stepfather, and despite noob level, if I have clear procedure via posts, How-to articles, Bentley, or youtube, I feel comfortable tackling some of the jobs I've come across in my research so far. I do understand, however, planning and doing are obviously two different ballparks!

Originally Posted by aigel

This would be a good opportunity (past COVID) to throw some burgers on the grill and ask a couple Pelicans by on the weekend.

G

I definitely know my way around the grill moreso than on this 911, so I'm certainly more than happy to fire it up and have some cold ones ready if any local Pelicans are interested to help out at any point post-CoV!!

I'll take care of this stage and report back!

-Justin

[J-Gel]

Finally got a bunch of parts delivered and was able to get some work done.. Thankfully I was able to get spark after changing the plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor only (tested for spark visually first before torquing them in, but afterwards.. MAN getting a wrench in there for cylinders 5 and 6 was a *****
After attempting to fire up once everything was put back and buttoned up, I got it to finally run for maybe 10 seconds, tons of smoke everywhere which I know is to be expected and I was thrilled to see since it was my first sign of life.. But unfortunately haven't had such luck in subsequent attempts.. I'm imagining that I was burning residual fuel in the engine, and now I am not getting any fuel flow to sustain it to turn over and run again?
So, next up is fuel system testing, as I've been recommended.. My gauges have arrived, but before moving forward my questions at the moment are as follows:

A) What is the purpose of the fuel pump relay bypass switch? (For my educational purposes, of course)
If the pump is on when the key is in the ON position prior to START, why do I operate the pump with the switch?
I began following instructions putting a switch together from the "CIS Troubleshooting For Dummies" thread along with the Bentley mention of it, got hung up today with bullet connectors that turned out to be too thick to fit into the female ends of the relay port, and thought I would ask here first before I get a chance to locate smaller bullet ends.. (Any tips on these, btw? I got the only ones at my 'FLAPS' which turned out to be too thick, and my next attempt at the hardware store proved that they actually didn't have any at all)

B) Secondly. I understand I should be hearing a whirring or some sort of sound from my CDI box when in the ON position. How distinct is that sound? I am barely picking up on anything so I'm assuming I'm not getting it, but wanted to verify before sending in for refurb.

C) Lastly, with that being said, does it sound like my CDI box most definitely needs to be sent in for refurb if I'm not hearing anything from it? If I am in fact not getting any production from it, will running the fuel pressure test be pointless until the CDI is in working order, and better to wait to run it once I get the box back? Or is the FP as far as the test goes unrelated to a functioning CDI? I understand the CDI box powers the coil, but if that's so and it weren't working, then I guess I wouldn't get spark either?

TIA!

Justin
____________________
'83 911SC Targa

[J-Gel]

2.5 years later ...

She's up and running and couldn't be more thrilled!

Back when I started this thread I had much more time to attempt to learn how to do these projects.. Not having much of a foundation each project was a lesson from scratch and took quite some time. Now in a new job, far less free time, and having sold my relatives house where I had my decades long garage tenure, my options were to move into a storage facility or get in driving shape, so I opted for the latter.

I booked a tow into a shop that came VERY highly recommended by an old time friend, and soon enough I was on the road!

Very satisfying to hear that the work I had done was all correct and got us fairly close to the finish line. The remaining work largely consisted of work on the fuel distributor, fuel injector cleaning, replaced ignition box, replaced Warm Up Regulator, along with replacing other flex lines, seals, bushings, etc. Brake system was frozen locked so needed new master cylinder and freed up calipers all brake lines bled. Fresh set of Michelins and here we are!

[GothingNC]

Thanks for the update !

Glad it is back on the road, looks great !!

[bigo5552000]

Glad she is back in the road! Enjoy!!


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[darrin]

beautiful car, enjoy!

[RDM]

That's great news! Thanks for sharing your story.

Don't give up on the DIY.

[dtwa]

Congratulations. Way to persevere and get it back on the road. Sometimes when time is in short supply, money can compensate. Glad you found a good shop and got it back on the road. —Best, Dave


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[sugarwood]

Way to get the job done by punting to a pro.
Better than the alternative of the inept hoarder who stores an incomplete project forever.