Led signals, ground issue?

[fpvga]

82 SC. Have spokeworks LED signals all around (love them) as well as a Classic Retrofit fuse panel. I recently noticed that there seems to be a low voltage on the wrong signal, in addition to a normally functioning signal. No fast flashing or issues with the tach signal lights — everything seems good except for the fact that the wrong signal blinks dimly in addition to the normal signal. Video might explain a little better: https://photos.app.goo.gl/XvDu89a39zjvji3u9

Any tips on debugging this? I’m wondering if there is some feedback on the relay or something. Thanks in advance for any tips!

[ian c2]

Spokeworks is on here iirc . As is classic retrofit .
Maybe send a pm ?
Though please don’t disappear without updating the thread with the solution !!

[Arne2]

One side, or both? Just rear? Or do the fronts do this as well?

[fpvga]

Happens on both sides, and both front and back. When the lights are actually on, no issue — the lights light to the normal brightness and are not energized beyond that.

[Arne2]

Do you have them tied into the tail lights in the rear using the side marker LEDs? If so, try disconnecting the sidemarker connection and test it that way.

[Jonny H]

Did you do both upgrades at the same time? Just trying to narrow it down.

You could pull the 4 lighting fuses (a pair each side of the relays). If the problem persists then it’s in the blinker circuit, not the main lighting circuit.

As Arne2 says, feels like a side marker/blinker issue.

[Dpmulvan]

Get yourself a decent voltmeter

[fpvga]

Hi y’all. Pulled all but the signal fuses and relay, the problem persists. The hazards are fine, the main lights and parking lights are fine. When I turn the signals on either side, the other side of the circuit energizes (theres 12v on both fuses 9 and 10) but the alternate signal is dim. I’ll try changing the relay. All the wiring at the fuse panel looks correct. Let me know if any tips on how to that, been studying the wiring diagrams but not clear to me where the interference could be coming from without totally disconnecting everything and checking it connection by connection...

@Jonny I have had the less for a while, the fuse panel is new. I can’t promise that it didn’t happen before (someone driving behind me told me), but I’m pretty sure it started with the fuse panel job.
@Arne2 it’s unchanged with all but the signal fuses pulled, and I don’t have front side markers at all
@Dpmulvan I’ve got one, not sure what I’m checking though, there is a voltage on the wrong signal at the fuse panel

[Arne2]

If you have the rear marker LEDs, pull them out of the sockets and test with them not in place.

[fpvga]

Arne2 thanks — pulled them out, no change. Basically, the top of fuses 9 and 10 are getting +12 no matter which direction signal is turned on, and just ding by the dimness of the LEDs, low current.

Here’s a video: https://photos.app.goo.gl/WpueRVYUtL3vokzY8

And here’s one of the panel with the fuses pulled (the classic retrofit panel has LEDs in line): https://photos.app.goo.gl/aWSifgwTiWKnfiZd9

[7783911]

Spokeworks have a different relay for LEDS available

[Arne2]

Originally Posted by fpvga

Arne2 thanks — pulled them out, no change. Basically, the top of fuses 9 and 10 are getting +12 no matter which direction signal is turned on, and just ding by the dimness of the LEDs, low current.

Here’s a video: https://photos.app.goo.gl/WpueRVYUtL3vokzY8

And here’s one of the panel with the fuses pulled (the classic retrofit panel has LEDs in line): https://photos.app.goo.gl/aWSifgwTiWKnfiZd9

Something looks to be energizing the park/tail light circuits when using the signals. LEDs are polarized, they can't come on at lower intensity from a ground issue.

Have you contacted Spokeworks about this? Jerry can probably help troubleshoot it faster than anyone.

[spoke]

Changing to LED turnsignals can cause all kinds of weird things to happen with respect to the OEM flashers. Some flashers will hyperflash (2x flash rate; the OEM flasher in my '86 930 did this) and some in the Porsche world will not properly power the tachometer indicator bulbs.

This issue you are seeing with the other side turnsignals flashing gently is common in the 914 world. I call this ghosting. What is happening in the 914 and some 911 models is the K/C2 pin of the OEM flasher relay powers a common connection of the tach turnsignal indicators. Not sure why they did this but it is done.

The K/C2 pin is driven by a secondary coil using the heavy current of exterior incandescent bulbs (21W or 1.5 amperes). When changing to LED turnsignals, the current is very low and K/C2 isn't driven at all. Thus the turnsignal side being powered actually powers the other side through the 2 turnsignal indicators as shown below.

Most likely an LED-compatible flasher like the EP26 will solve the issue. EP26 is widely available BUT the C2 pin is left open. I resell the EP26 with the C2 pin grounded.

A way to easily test this issue is to pull out the tachometer and pull out one of the indicator bulbs and try the turnsignals. If the ghosting goes away then you need an EP26 flasher relay.

Let me know how you make out.