oil tank location

[r lane]

I am building a track car, 3.6. I am debating installing a front oil tank. My reasoning is you move 30 lbs from the back and relocate that 30 lbs to the front. A good bit of plumbing and fabrication to do this, but my main apprehensions are potential oiling problems that go with this set up. Obviously it works because there are cars with this system out on the track. I am told one main consideration is the size of the feed line, which is big. -20 maybe. Would appreciate response from those of you that have experience with this system. Pros and cons, is it worth it. Also I am going to attempt to cool the oil with two fender coolers, one each side, sitting behind a 934 style front bumper with large cooler intakes. Is this going to be sufficient? Thanks, Bob

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by r lane

I am building a track car, 3.6. I am debating installing a front oil tank. My reasoning is you move 30 lbs from the back and relocate that 30 lbs to the front. A good bit of plumbing and fabrication to do this, but my main apprehensions are potential oiling problems that go with this set up. Obviously it works because there are cars with this system out on the track. I am told one main consideration is the size of the feed line, which is big. -20 maybe. Would appreciate response from those of you that have experience with this system. Pros and cons, is it worth it. Also I am going to attempt to cool the oil with two fender coolers, one each side, sitting behind a 934 style front bumper with large cooler intakes. Is this going to be sufficient? Thanks, Bob

You might be better off using a 964 or 993 oil tank just ahead of the rear wheel, even the late 991 based RSR's use an oil tank just above the flywheel. I've seen several 911 track cars setup that way.

991 RSR seen here


964 oil tank


993 oil tank


'72 911 oil tank








3.6 on track needs all the cooling it can get

964/993 use large, longitudinally mounted dual coolers, which exhaust out the front/bottom of the wheel well, these work very well because all the air from the front chin if forced through them
passenger side


drivers side


On a 911 the most efficient place is going to be the center chin w/ as large a cooler as you can fit , then smaller auxiliary ones on one or both sides

[Tom '74 911]

Hi Bob,

Looks like a sweet car you're working on there!

My race car has a smuggler's box mounted oil tank. I think it takes about 14 quarts to fill the system after an oil change if I remember correctly. It did require some cutting and sheetmetal fab work to install there. It uses a mix of hard and soft lines for the plumbing. You might see if you can track down a Smart Racing oil tank that is shaped to fit the smuggler's box opening without cutting anything. The extra cost of the tank would likely be offset by the time and energy it takes to fit a more widely available round tank into that square hole.

I don't have data to speak to how beneficial this mod. is, but can say it's a pretty common one...

Another route you might consider is leaving the tank in the stock location, but extending the bottom to enlarge it - I'll add a photo of that below too.

I can take more photos of the sheetmetal and plumbing if you'd like - this is what I have easy access to right now.

Tom

[r lane]

I have a car, 78, with the tank forward of the rr wheel. A lot of work, but what isn't. I had used its tank which had to be flipped and a lot of welding. The 964/993 tank seems to be the way to do that mod as was suggested. I have the smart racing tank which has been my plan all along, just having second thoughts while contemplating the problems it may present. thanks for the response. Tidy looking compartment Tom. Bob

[stownsen914]

I have tracked 914-6 and 911 racecars that have front mounted tanks. I have a -20 feed on both, but -16 is probably sufficient. I used -16 everywhere else. In a 911, the weight advantage of the front mounted tank is pretty clear, less so on the 914.

I agree on using big coolers. Both of the above cars have a single front mounted, approx. 26" x 6-7" by 3.5" thick to keep the oil around 200 degrees.

[winders]

Bob,

I have a big Petersen 4 gallon tank in the smuggler's box of my race car. I use all AN-16 lines. You can use a -20 line to feed the engine if you want but it is not necessary. I have a 8000 RPM engine with a GT3 Cup oil pump and it gets all the oil it wants. If you do go -20, I am pretty sure you will want to put anti-collapse springs in that hose. Why? Because the -20 line is actually more likely to collapse than the -16 line.

I am really happy with my setup. I like the weight being up front and I like the extra oil capacity. I was using two 964 coolers welded together but now I am using a Billy Boat FPOR-9400 oil cooler. Here is the link:

https://www.bbexhaust.com/shop/porsche-front-spoiler-mount-oil-cooler-fpor-9400/

Your front bumper has an opening plenty big enough for that cooler.

Note that I have an oil filter console on the engine on the high pressure side of the circuit and another oil filter console mounted to the chassis which is on the low pressure side.

Scott

[RWebb]

where did the 30 lbs number come from?

[Bill Verburg]

The large center mount B&B cooler that Winders referred to seems to be the go to one for track use around here too, usually w/ a stock radiator type in the passengers wheel too.

W/ the 964/993 tanks you don't need to use the '72 external door for access.

The 993 oil cap is seen here to the right of th air box, there is a long tube that goes forward to the tank

[r lane]

Thanks all again, SOTT, youv'e given me inspiration, and possible folly, to proceed with the front tank. I will run both oil filters and yes the front of the bumper offers a 3rd cooler option if necessary. I ran 2 fender coolers in my narrow body car, but with limited air flow to them, 220-230 degrees. I removed one, installed a Fluid Dyne front cooler, and now we are too cold, but that you can control. BILL, are the 964 coolers getting air through the headlight buckets? RWEBB, the oil tanks weigh 7-8 lbs, a gal of oil weighs 7 lbs. Speculating that there are 3 gals in the tank, then you are looking at 28-29 lbs for the tank and oil. If I go with the Smart tank, then maybe 3 1/2 gals in it. All in all you have approx a 60-70lb benefit shift. I think that is worth pursuing. Bob

[r lane]

Front and center Fluid Dyne teamed with a stock fender cooler on the passenger side which for now is taped off.

[VWLoosenuts]

In for following this thread for my future needs.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by r lane

... I ran 2 fender coolers in my narrow body car, but with limited air flow to them, 220-230 degrees. I removed one, installed a Fluid Dyne front cooler, and now we are too cold, but that you can control. BILL, are the 964 coolers getting air through the headlight buckets? RWEBB, the oil tanks weigh 7-8 lbs, a gal of oil weighs 7 lbs. Speculating that there are 3 gals in the tank, then you are looking at 28-29 lbs for the tank and oil. If I go with the Smart tank, then maybe 3 1/2 gals in it. All in all you have approx a 60-70lb benefit shift. I think that is worth pursuing. Bob

No, the front tub of a 964/993 is shaped differently than a 911, the lower front corners are pinched in and form the inner walls of a wind tunnel, the coolers are hung on racks the outer walls are formed by the bumper and it's all sealed at the edges forcing the air to pass through the coolers









for a 911 the usual and most efficient cooler is a center lip mount sealed at the edges, On my street car I use the next smaller b&B than the one mentioned above. For street use it is fine w/ even a 3.8, but is totally inadequate for track use.

The forward lower part of the 911 trunk is usually cut and an angled exit formed of sheet metal

'74 RSR




934 center is oil sides are water





911 stock