Newbie needs help (Buying a 911 in Scotland)

[McRod]

Hello Everyone,

I spotted a White 1988 (F553 MAA) Carrera Cabrio sport for sale in second hand car forecourt in Glasgow on Friday and went along for a look at it yesterday. Its done 76,000 miles with full service history.

The guy is asking £15500.00 with a year`s M.O.T. I`m sure that`ll drop to £15000.00 when/if i press it.

The car appears to be absolutely original in terms of bodywork. I was a spraypainter for 9 years so i know what to look for in terms of giveaway areas showing sings of repairs and painting.

There is one area that niggles me tho, just below the powerhood, high on the back quarter panel (above the engine), is a rust bubble wich is definately penetrative rust coming through from the engine bay. This is something i have the means to fix properly but its still a niggle and needs fixed properly.

All other areas are nice and original with little tiny, minor areas of rust and stone chips that give you that feeling that it`s original and unpainted.

The hood looks to be in reasonable condition but there is a small tear started at the stretch point near the bracket.

I looked underneath where it was parked and saw no obvious signs on water and oil leaks and all the tyres looked very new. Wheels were also in vgc.

I`ve heard white isn`t the most desirable colour and affects the price. I`m planning on keeping this car a long time and to eventually have it in A1/concours condition. Do you think white is a good project car?.

i`m just wondering if it might be worth the extra 400-500 gbp for a warranty or would that cash be safer held back and used if and when a fault develops?.

The salesperson showed me the log book and i jotted down the 2 previous onwer`s names and addresses but when i tried directory enquiries for their number, they were ex-directory.

I guess my main concern is the mechanics of the vehicle but as i don`t know any experienced Porsche mechanics i might just have to take a lucky chance.

I was pointed to this website by a guy from the Overclockers UK Motor Forum who said this is the place to come for help and advice. Any information on what is the wisest thing to do will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

McRod

[AirCooledExcellence]

Rod,

Don't take a chance a buy it without having a full mechanical inspection done by a competant Independent specialist. Perhaps some of the Scottish Pelicans can suggest somewhere?

Cheers

[silverc4s]

Rod,
You are correctamundo, white is not usually a highly desired color in a street 911, although it may be the best color for a track car.
I would be concerned to see rust on a 1988 911. If you see that one spot on the rear wing, there are likely other areas as well. That's a good sign that the car may have lived out of doors for some extended time, not good...
Best of luck in your search.

[nick-moss]

I think white is fine for a cabrio, especially if it has a coloured hood.
I don't know of any specialist north of the border, but that rust spot would bother me too. Seems a good price, i have just seen one advertised for £23.5K but that must be VERY special. If it has a full srvice history get the previous owners addresses of the service invoices.
New hoods are available from Southbound in Southampton for about £500 (I think). The Porcche Club GB forum is worth a visit for advice.

[Bill Douglas]

McRod, we have someone on the BBS from Glasgow. Chris, who's user ID is Glasgow 911SC, is very knowledgeable and can point you in the direction of a good place to do a pre purchase inspection. Just remmember if you are talking to Chris you are a staunch supporter of the Glasgow Rangers

[McRod]

Thanks Bill and Nick,

i`ll keep my eyes open for Chris, as a fellow Rangers fan and a season ticket holder at Ibrox, he is duty bound to help me out !!

Rod

[smithH]

I would concur with the others above. White isnt the most desirable colour, but that only really counts for resale. If you like the colour dont be put off. I would recommend you get a PPI too as a must. Also check all the electrics work, they may only be niggles, but can work out expensive if you get a shop to fix it all.

Also check it has all the sport options. If you have the chassis number you can ring Porsche Cars GB and they will tell you what the car was originally spec'd with. I.e. Front & rear spoiler E/S/M/Seats, check the are all still there.

Other things I like to look for is how original is the car? Can you see Porsche parts on the consumeables. Where was it serviced? are they a well known Porsche specialist?

Also I happen to know that there is a buyers guide for 3.2 Carreras in GT purely porsche next month (as they used my car), there was also one not too long ago in 911 & porsche world - you can order back copies.

Good luck in your search, remember there are plenty out there (although maybe not so many in Scotland).

[dickster]

hi mcrod

did you check out under the carpets? look everywhere inside for signs of leakage.

with that sort of mileage it should drive lovely. nice and firm.

is it a left hooker? if not, i'd say price is about right - but no higher! i've seen a gorgeous lhd '88 - '89 (dont remember exactly), blue/blue leather, 70k miles, for £12.5K

what colour is the interior?

i personally dont go for the whites and reds , but if you plan on hanging on to it it really doesn't matter?? its more a case of your personal preference.

being an experienced body man i am sure you can decide how serious the rust bubble is - be sure theres not more lurking.

i would try writing to the previous owners.

good luck

[nick-moss]

Following on the comments of Hugh Smith, you should find the options sticker under the bonnet, if it's not there that is evidence of a front end repair and/or respray. That sticker should be duplicated in the service book and will give you the full spec of the car as it left the factory. Those codes can be found in Peter Morgan's "Original Porsche 911" or the Porsche 911 Red Book 1965-1999 by Patrick Paternie.

Some codes are available at the Porsche Option Decoder page

The 911 & Porsche World issue 86 May 2001 has the 3.2 Carrera buyers' guide

[McRod]

Thanks again guys,

To answer some questions...

I know you guys probably won`t beleive this but it hasn`t rained in Glasgow for approximately 5 weeks. Honestly !! , so i couldn`t really see if there was any leaks from the hood etc.

The carpets felt dry though, and there was no real wear on them. I did notice the door rubber at the sill on the drivers side had worn through but the car is 15 years old. Where the Trunk/Boot lid lands on the rubber rear bumper area is rusted as the paint has, through time, worn off. Just surface rust tho.....no major penetrative corrosion.

The interior is black leather and while it isn`t the freshest looking leather, it ain`t the worst i`ve seen either. Dashboard etc seems clean enough.

What are people opinions on colours then?. Or am i opening up a huge can of worms here ? heh. If reds and whites aren`t the most desirable, does that mean the silvers and blacks are?

As usual, every word of advice is appreciated guys, i`ve learnt more about 911`s in the last 3 days than i have in the last 34 years

McRod

[dickster]

what colour do YOU like??

i dont favour reds, but if a really nice red 930 came my way for the right money.....who knows!!

[smithH]

I have never selected a car on colour, I wanted a Red 911 (the 80s icon) but the ones I looked at were rough, so when a nice blue one came up I took it. Condition of the car is very important, if you are planning on keeping it for a years (i.e. resell value isnot as important) then choose a colour you like, if you can find a good car. Otherwise dont worry about the colour, get a good car!

[Glasgow 911SC]

McRod
Where's your season ticket for? I'm on the club deck.

Anyway. Is the car in question at the Commerce car company? If so, they've had it advertised for a few months now so more haggling might be possible. I get my servicing done at Glenvargil OPC. The only specialist I have heard recomended is;

George Morrison Motors - Independent Porsche service specialist with Porsche-trained technicians. Address: George Morrison Motors, 130 Farmeloan Road, Rutherglen, Glasgow Tel: 0141 643 1768

We're kind of short on experts up here.

On the rust problem, I would say it's (sadly) not that uncommon for even late model Carreras to be rusty over here. I went to look at a '89 Coupe in Paisley. It had bubles all around the front & rear windows and the usual bubling on the door shut panels.

I would suggest not buying it just because it's local. Look in 911 & Porsche World magazine, GT Purely Porsche and best of all, the Porsche Post (PCGB MAGAZINE). Also, the specialist in England have a huge choice of cars compared to up here.

Example1
Example2
Example3

The 3rd one specializes in LHD cars which gets you a lot more car for your money.

Hope this helps a bit.

[smithH]

Just to add to Chris's suggestion list. Be very warying when looking at example one. His cars are cheap, but the he specialises in cars with poor history and high miles. can recommed Fuchs, or use someone like Adrian Crawford to source you a car.

[Glasgow 911SC]

Oh, and the ad for the car says full Porsche history so any work carried out should be traceable.

[Glasgow 911SC]

Not to put you off, but read this thread on fellow Scot, Rob Justice's '85 Carrera & the hidden rust problems he encounteres.

[McRod]

Hiya Chris.

Govan stand front (GF7) kinda close to the halfway line at the Copland Rd side. Great seat, excellent view but we don`t get served Filet Mignon with sauce bernaise, sauted potatoes on a bed of asparagus at hal;f time like you Club Deck people . We have to make do with pies and Tizer

Anyways,

Yup your right mate, its in Commerce Car Sales in Commerce St, Glasgow.

The price on the screen is £16495.00 and with some minor haggling he dropped it to £15500.00. I reckon, if i really wanted the car, and extra wee push would drop him to £15000.00.

Theres still 6 months left on the M.O.T and the service history looks genuine and complete. There were also a few reciepts in the "bundle" of paper work that came with it.

As with regards to the condition, it was mostly covered in dust, as were all the cars in his forcourt. He explained that having them displayed under a railway bridge in the middle of Glasgow was the reason. (After 5 minutes i saw his point....my Shogun was covered in it too heh).

There is something attractive about looking at a 15 year old car in an original state. There is no obvious signs of major damage or paintwork having been done. I did, however, spot some old paintwork flaking from around the nearside headlamp bezzel.

The nature of the flaking compared to the quality of the paintwork on the wing would suggests that it is a very old repair on the wing somewhere. The finish on the rest of the wing is what i would expect from a top quality repair centre and the paint flaking is consistent with what happened with some older acrylic paint (2-pack)products from the early 90`s.

Perhaps this notion that this area of paintwork re-finishing is old is re-assuring in respect that it hasn`t been repainted recently to hide any rust holes. i.e. The paint seemed to be close to the age of the original paintwork as the stone-chips are consistent across the front of the vehicle (including this painted wing area).

This leads me to the next observation. The entire car does have that feel of originality about it. There are the stonechips on the front that have been affectionately "touched-up" some years ago by a caring owner. There are also paintwork blemishes on the door edges near the handles where someone`s ring has nibbled away at the paintwork over the years by pulling it shut from the door edge and not the inner grip handle .

There is a little seem of rust on the metal front bumper insert, next to the wheel arch (sorry i`m not sure what the right name of rit is yet) which has again been touched up.

Overall i get the impression that the car isn`t trying to hide anything from me. On close inspection it does look like a 15 year old car that has been reasonable well looked after. It doesn`t give me the impression that its been spraypainted by a previous owners "mate" in his lock-up garage down the road.

The only "odd" part about the entire bodywork is this area of bubbled, penetrative rust just below the power hood on the back quarter panel. It looks like a chap with the end of a screwdriver would put a hole in it. It is well within my means to get it properly repaired (Its what i do for a living) but the fact it is there in the first place bugs me a little. But i keep having to remind myself she is 15 years old !!

My main area of concern tho is the mechanics and this is where i really need help. Perhaps, if i decide to take it further, i could call those people from Rutherglen you mentioned, and see if i can charter them for an inspection.

I`ll probably be going along again later in the week to have another close look at the bodywork. i`ll remember to take my digital camera this time and take a few photos of it. If you guys could look at them and give me opinions it would be great.

i`ll let you know how i get on and once again, "Thanks" for all the help and advice everyone, its waaaaaay more than i was expecting.

McRod

p.s. Chris, now i know i ain`t alone, i`ve added my sig to my profile heh.

[smithH]

McRod,

Whilst I agree the car is 15 years old now so you can expect the patina (is that the word) of age to show. There are some damn fine cars out there at the moment for similar money. I have seen the grey coupe in GTPP this month at £15,000 - it was a beautiful car, really first class, many of these cars have spent coverted lives so set your standards high, there are some bargins to be had.

Look forward to seeing the picutres.

[McRod]

On the subject of magazines....am i likely to find GTPP in your average Menzies etc or are there a select few newsagents that stock them?.

McRod

[smithH]

I have to say you need to hunt it out, I find that most large WH Smiths stock it down here, not sure about in Scotland, you will need a large store for sure.

The subscription # is 01732748084. They may be able to help with stockists. The mag is getting better every month.