Front wing (fender) changing

[rob justice]

I'm about to start changing both front wings (fenders) on my 85 Carrera due to corrosion. Any tips/comments/advise before starting?
Cheers.

[cds72911]

Rob,

Only thing I can suggest is to have lots of patience.

There are several fasteners (especially on the side with the gas flap) that are very difficult to get to. The position of the fuel filler gets in the way of all but the smallest rachet and there is barely room for the universal joint that you'll inevetably need for a few of them. Corrosion and undercoating make this process even worse.

Just be patient and it will all work out.

Charlie

[rob justice]

Cheers Charlie. I'm going to start stripping it on Friday of this week so i'll let you know how i'm getting on.

[Jim Sims]

I'd recommend buying a replacement fastener kit and of course new packing for the joints. If the fenders (wings) are corroded be prepared to find corrosion of the fins that the rear of the fenders attach to. These fins project from the body just ahead of the doors and may also require repair or replacement (welding!). One may also find that the rubber funnel around the fuel filler is due for replacement. It was my experience that the left (driver's) fender required twice as much time to remove as the right fender. The small sockets which have the integral universal joint and a set of small, thin ignition-type metric combination wrenches (spanners) were helpful in removing some of the hard to reach fasteners. Undercoating had to be scraped off some of the fastener heads to allow the wrenches to seat. Good luck! Jim

[rob justice]

Jim, the near side wing (filler neck) has 2 blisters aft of the filler neck. When weight was put onto these blisters - you could 'hear' the metal giving. The off side wing has a dent and is starting to corrode around seam that joins small panel that bumper bellows bolts into. I'm hoping that the rust hasn't spread as far as the 'a' piller fins. You've got me thinking/hopeing now!!!!!!!!!!!! Let you know how i get on.
Regards

[rob justice]

Managed to get the wings off at last!!!!!!!!
Found some corrosion along top edge of near side ( fuel filler side) inner wing but nothing to bad. Fitting new wings is on hold due to a few small blisters on off side door latch panel that have turned out to be anything but small. Sill/body rocker support is needing changed - this wond be easy with rear wing in place!!!!!!!Will attach some photos when i get the hang of this digital camera - all the photos taken have turned out using more than 65k bytes!!!!!!!!!!

[Doug Zielke]

As I read Rob's post, I can't help but wish Porsche had made their cars with some sort of plastic, inner fender liners.

Last winter, I took the wheels off the Blue Bomber and inspected all the crevices in and around the fenders, wheel wells, and bumpers. Talk about dirt traps! You could never clean these areas out with normal car washing. It took me several evenings to probe out the dirt accumulations...and I thought my car was clean!

With all the hidden dirt wicking and holding moisture, it's little wonder many 911's suffer from rust, even with their galvanized parts.

[rob justice]

Off side - very little corrosion.

[rob justice]

Near side - bit blistered


Near side - couple a holes - these are usually hidden by the screen wash filler pipe



This was before i started digging!



Things are getting difficult!!!!!!!!!!
Looks like a few cold winters nights cuddling up to the mig!!!!!!!!!

[TCGGrafix]

WOW! A lot more rust than I would expect from an 85 Carrera! Is there anything in particular in Scotland would cause this much rust? Looks like it’s a good thing you caught it when you did. Thanks for the pics and good luck with the repairs.

[Doug Zielke]

This could only be due to SALT!
Or, did Porsche neglect to galvanize this poor '85 Carrera? (More amazing images for my "Parts in Distress" file.)

Rob...Do you have a copy of the Haynes 911 Restoration Manual? They go into your repair quite well. Good luck, and have a wee dram on me!

[rob justice]

I've had a good look and the car is galvanised, i think the problem was caused due to constant build up of muck and very little under body cleaning. The area of rust on the front inner wing was so 'crudded' that i couldn't see the filler pipe for the screen wash.
Whilst working on the car body i've noticed that the despite all the zinc protection there are just so many nooks and cranies that allow muck to build up.
I'm hopeing to remove the sill/rocker support by drilling out all the spot welds that are visable now that i've removed the interior rear panel(will attace photo later). I Think joining the sill/rocker support to the rocker panel will be the most difficult job - there's not much space between outer rear wing and sill/rocker support. Hopefully i've caught the rust before it spread into the sill area.
I think at the end of the day - if the car had been steam cleaned underneath on a regular basis - the rust problems can be kept in check and you can visably watch out for possible problems.

[rob justice]

View with front wheel removed - check out all that muck - its a haven for salts and all corrosive matters



Sprayed on traffic film remover ant let it soak in for a few mins



20 minutes with the jet wash - its a pity this process hadn't been carried out to the car on a regular basis by any of the previous owners.

[rob justice]

I'm going to set up a new post detailing door latch panel replacement cos its starting to get away from the original post. I've plenty of new photos to post.

[Saffs]

Wow, Rob, that looks a satisfying process! Especially getting all the road dirt off, cutting the rust out. etc. Please keep up posting pics.
I'm sure you're right: compacted, damp mud pressed against the underside for years is bound to cause corrosion. In Winter I clean the underside of my 911 every week - if the PO had done on your car you wouldn't be doing this now....
Keep up the good work.

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

Thats a "normal" sight.

The zink coat is very fine layer and will wander to the oxidationspots untill the oxidation had eat up the anode.
With some acidbuildup you get a little battery on those spots and the zink coat will vanish within several monts and the rust starts very fast.

Most people think Porsche bodys who are full galvanized donīt need care ( many people donīt care either ). In fact the PVC Coat will dry out and get fine cracks starting the missery. Especialy if some specialists use petrol/taar based undercoats rather then the factory used wax.

Grüsse

[rob justice]

To help keep future corrosion to a minimum - a set of wing liners are a must.

[Doug Zielke]

Originally posted by rob justice
To help keep future corrosion to a minimum - a set of wing liners are a must.

Rob,
Please try to e-mail me all the details of those fender liners. I want to get a set and try them out.

[rob justice]

Doug,
did you get the e-mail i sent on sunday?

[rob justice]

Doug, here is a copy of the e-mail i sent to you on sunday - there might have been a problem with my machine.


'Doug,
I tried to scan that article but the scanner died, I will try over the next week to contact
someone who has a working scanner.
The article was on page 39 (letter of the month) of June 2001 911 & Porsche World.
Maybe you could put a post on pp site - someone might be able to scan it.
The liners appear very well made and get an excellent write up. They are made in Finland
and supplied by a German company -
Thomas Hanna Industrievertretung,
Rankestrasse 6,
80796 Munich,
Germany.
Tel: - 089 3004491
Fax: - 089 3005592
There is a support visable in the article.The article goes on to mention the the liners have
'cut-outs' for oil pipes and rubber lips the form a seal against body that also provents
vibration.
Thats all i can do until i manage to get the scanner working.
Regards,
Rob Justice'