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last lap update CIS problem: system pressure = control pressure. Both wrong.
Time has passed and I think I see some light in the tunnel. See last page.
I rebuilt my motor that was running before. 1980 911sc 98 mm Mahle cylinders replated Carrillo pistons Dougherty DC15 cams Backdated exhaust with SSI and Dansk muffler MSD ignition Runs well for 2-3 seconds and then sputters and stops. Doesn’t run at all with thermo time switch disconnected. Dropped the engine and double checked vacuum and electrical connections. Hooked up fuel pressure gauges to find that both system and control pressures are around 4 bar. Control way high. Cleaned up the WUR innards, and was rewarded with system pressure at about 4 bar and control pressure at about 2.2. Engine ran for ten minutes until I turned it off as the garage was getting too smoky - hose came off. After about an hour I tried again. No start. Then discovered that both control and system pressure matched again - this time at around 2.5 bar. This appears to be a trend because after cleaning out all of the hoses related to the CIS, I now have both system and control pressure matching at three bar. Again the engine starts well and falters, What would possibly allow system and control pressure to match??? Fuel pump pegged my gauge at 15 bar and seems to have good delivery. Blew air through the return line to the tank. Heard bubbles. I am going nuts trying to find a scenario in which system and control pressures wander around but always match?! I do not really want carbs, I want the durn thing to run after all the work. I guess the good News is that I can pull the motor in less than two hours, but that kind of practice I can do without. Help?!! |
You can try this :
1. Make sure to bleed air out of the pressure tester lines. 2. Check the Vacuum connection at the top of the WUR, there might be a restriction in the hose, or the hose clamp may be too tight (if missing the reducing socket piece). 3. Check the System Pressure Regulator (located on the right side of the Fuel Distributor and be careful with removing the piston).. There could be crud in there, or problems with the o-rings in it.. With it removed, you can also blow air/cleaner from the WUR return line to see if there is any blockage there.. 4. You can also test WUR control pressure throughflow by measuring fuel amount from line at the top of the FD going to WUR (typically 160 to 240cc in 60 seconds according to the Probst book.) Would also be good to post the model number of the WUR (US 1980 SC should be 090) and whether it's K-Lambda or not.. If you can post pictures of the WUR and the vacuum and fuel connections from it to the throttle body and fuel distributor, it would also help with diagnosis. Hang in there, your problem is definitely solvable...:) cheers, Jeff 81 911SC ROW RHD |
CIS Troubleshooting.........
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Worn, Are you sure your gauge registered 15 bar? If it did, then your gauge needs some calibration. Why? Simply because a single CIS FP is not capable of producing 15 bar of fuel pressure. Hope you are not using a HF brand CIS gauge. You are making this CIS troubleshooting too difficult. And with your questionable CIS gauge added to the equation makes it more complicated. In reality, your problem is quite simple. If you want this motor to run with CIS, you will be disappointed and frustrated because you are not doing it the right way. You are working very hard to get this motor to run and I give you high mark for that. Have it ever occurred in your mind that maybe there is something wrong with your CIS components or tools? Since you are seeking help, I will offer you some CIS troubleshooting assistance for FREE. Let me test and evaluate your components (WUR, FD, AAR, etc.) and return them to you with the test results. Right now you are hoping that both the WUR & FD are good. But you don’t know that as a fact. Even your gauge is a suspect. Good luck. Tony |
If in doubt you should let boyt911sc help you out.
My story: When I bought my car, it seemed to run fairly well but was really rich. When I first hooked up cis gauges my control pressure and system pressure tested the same. I was told it shouldn't run at all, so I must be doing something wrong. As I worked thru the problems I found the screen to the wur clogged, the mixture screw in the fuel distributor screwed all the way in and siezed, and the needle missing from the system pressure regulator. It took a while to find and sort all of these problems and a few parts that I may not have needed. I did learn all about cis .......this is just a hobby, right? |
Listen to Tony he's a stand up guy helps tons of people on the forum.
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Technical discussions.........
Jeff,
Sorry. I have to disagree with some of your information. We are just discussing some technical information. You maybe correct and I could be wrong. So don’t take it personal. And I learned a lot from people like you. Quote:
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The hose connection on top of the WUR you were referring is not a vacuum line. It is a vent hose connected on top of the butterfly valve in the throttle body. The US spec ‘80~’83 SC CIS don’t use vacuum assisted WUR’s for enrichment. Quote:
I agree but use the main return line fitting at the rear side of the FD instead. Quote:
So what will you do with this information? What you need is fuel pressure not flow rate. Quote:
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Tony |
Wow. Thanks to all. I have an alternative gauge I plan to use in order to check the accuracy of the HF gauge. If it were temperature I would use boiling water as a standard. Volume I would use a micro pipetor or maybe a graduated cylinder. My micrometers have length standards that came with them. But pressure is a bit harder, so I will see if two gauges or maybe three gauges match.
Will also double check pump pressure. Then I will get back to you. The FD number ends in 77, so that is correct. I will get the number off of the WUR. No vacuum line indeed. Thanks so much! |
Hi Tony,
Thanks for all your comments, no worries...:) I have learned a lot from your posts, so its nice to hear from you.. I have been a long time lurker on the forum, and have only recently started posting a bit more after owning my SC for more than 10 years... Plus, posts from you and other CIS gurus on the forum have helped to solve other members CIS issues, hence didn't see the need to add in redundant posts... I'll reply to the points below, sorry can't figure out how to do the individual quotes like you did, so will just list out below... #1 Bleeding air, yes I agree with you on this too, as I also don't bleed (air) when I am testing CIS pressures, but based on Worns problems with reading pressures, I thought that it would be a simple, no-cost step to do just in case... (Charles Probst recommends this in his book though, as does the Bentley manual....) #2 Yes you are completely right too that it is actually a vent line, I used the wrong term to describe it, it is also a vent line on the vacuum assisted 089 WUR in my car.....To explain further., as illogical as it may sound, I actually had a control pressure problem with the WUR vent, what happened was that the reducing socket was lost when I bought the car and the rubber hose was directly connected to the vent on the WUR side, and I stupidly tightened the hose clamp ABOVE the vent outlet, effectively clamping the hose shut and"sealing" the WUR vent.. As the WUR internals are pretty well sealed up, this blocking of the vent caused the vacuum assist diaphragm to somehow increase the vacuum and cause higher than spec control pressures which caused lean AFRs and some slight pinging..(Engine not damaged thankfully....) #3 Agree with you that undoing on the FD side is the right way to it, but with the engine in the car it's a bit easier to undo at the WUR side, so I do it for convenience... #4 In Charles Probst book, he suggests doing this test if you are having problems with mixtures that are either too rich or too lean, this test is to check if the control pressure restrictor in the FD is either clogged or eroded... If it is out of spec, he says to replace the FD... The idea behind this test is to avoid replacing a perfectly good WUR without actually solving the problem. #5 The US CIS has more variations than the ROW, so I might have jumped the gun on saying that it would be an 090, as I am actually not familiar withe US models since we don't have any here where I live...:). FYI I got the information from the Porsche 911SC and Turbo Service Information for 81 Model yellow cover booklet, there is a nice page in there that lists the Bosch part numbers for the primary CIS components such as the FD, AFS, AAV, AAR, WUR for all the 1981 ROW and US Models..it lists both the 090 and 072 for 911SC-USA models, so I incorrectly assumed that it would be an 090.. The earlier model yellow booklets (78, 80) do not have the CIS information in them, so I thought that 1981 was "close" enough...:D Hope Worn get his issue sorted out soon. cheers, Jeff Quote:
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Well, I am back. As I said I pulled the motor to check all fuel and vacuum lines. I also pulled out and quickly replaced the regulator plunger on the FD. All vacuum lines and regulators looked fine. The wires went to the right places. The fuel lines between components were open and clear. The lambda valve had the proper resistance, but beyond that I cannot tell.
WUR: 140072 FD: 0438100007 yesterday I went back with a different pressure gauge, and that confirmed system pressure still about 2.8 bar, and wherever the system pressure went, the control pressure followed. I put the gauge at the end of the fuel accumulator outlet. That produced 6.2 bar (my earlier number was a mistake in reading the gauge). Opening the valve produced 480 ml/30 seconds. This is less than half that indicated by the Bentley manual. Placing the gauge in line between the fuel accumulator and the filter produced fuel pump pressure varying between 5.7 and 6.2 bar. After pump shut off the fuel pressure fell steadily to 10 psi - much faster than the change in residual pressure measured at the system pressure port on the top of the FD. Is it time to send you stuff Tony? Fuel pump delivery rate seems low, but the pump seemed to be able to hold pressure when connected and delivering fuel. |
CIS pressure tests.......
Warren,
Since the motor is out, remove the following and shipped them to me.
Remove all the fittings for both FD & WUR. Wrap some electrical tape around the FD to keep the plunger from falling out and place it in zip lock bag. There are six (6) micro filters in the FD that might get dislodge during transit. Pack the FD well because it tends to break the shipping box during transit. Make sure you have enough insurance coverage in case the package got lost during transit. Before you removed the components, I like you to check the following:
Post these numbers and will compare our data later after I received the package. Also I like to compare the readings of our pressure gauges. Will PM you of my address. Thanks. Tony |
Hi Warren,
Your Fuel Delivery rate looks to be below spec and it might be worthwhile to investigate a bit further. Recommendation from Bosch injection book is to replace fuel filter and blow compressed air through supply line to be sure its open. If still out of spec, fuel pump may not be operating correctly. You don't have to hook up the gauge to the FA outlet to check fuel delivery, just measure from the return line. |
Thanks. I was wondering about that too. The gauge was there to test fuel pressure, and it has a valve inline, so I simply opened the valve to measure flow.
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Tony,
In light of the fuel delivery being a bit less than half of spec, do you think I ought to try another fuel pump? About 8 years ago I was having fuel problems mixed with a bad Permatune ignition box and replaced the fuel pump. I think I have the old one, which may well run as it ought to (I was really chasing my tail then). I could swap and check. My only reason I haven't done that is that while the pump didn't delivery properly into a beaker, when hooked up to the motor, the pump delivered the proper fuel pressure. Thanks Warren |
Repeat the test.......
Warren,
Repeat the flow rate test. The FP should deliver at least 1 liter per 30 sec. And make sure you have a fully charged battery. Disconnect the main delivery line to the fuel accumulator with the metal curved tube. Stick it to container and test run the FP for 30 sec. Take a couple of trials and compare the measured volumes. If you get 2 liters per min. or more flow rate capacity, then the FP is still good. Just make sure battery is fully charged when you do this test. Keep us posted. Tony |
OK. Things intervened but I finally did more tests. I originally was worried about the fuel pump delivery. After several retests I find that the pump produces 10 bar from the line going to the accumulator. It flows at about 3 liters per minute. My earlier flow rate was through the tube that came with the pressure test kit. The line is pretty small and restrictive.
System pressure varies from day to day between 2.5 and 2.9 bar. Control pressure consistently matches system pressure. In addition, when I stop the fuel pump, residual pressure stays at 2.5 bar for quite a long time. Not like what I consider normal where the pressure drops to about 1.3 bar and stays there for half an hour. Now it stays higher. Any ideas about what is going on? I am thinking that either flow is being limited in by some restriction, preventing system pressure from rising. Or flow going back to the tank lacks a restriction that should be there, thus bleeding pressure away too easily. Could the frequency valve lower system pressure if it got stuck open? It vibrates when I turn on the pump, but I am not sure how good a test that is. |
Fuel Distributor Identification........
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Warren, Please double check the Bosch ID # for your fuel distributor. It should not be -007. Keep us posted. Tony |
I note that a Bosch manual says that the fuel flow test point is actually at the outlet from the fuel distributor back to the tank. Did I measure flow wrong again?
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It is indeed 007. The WUR is also correct for the year.
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CIS components........
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Warren, The WUR-072 is the correct WUR for ‘80 SC US spec. and the correct FD is not -007. Check with the different owners of the same MY car what fuel distributors they have in their cars. Or use a reference manual for the correct CIS components for different MY. Keep us posted. Tony |
Sorry. Ends in 077, not 007.
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Time has passed; mostly out of the garage working on the house.
In last episode my system pressure was holding at about 2.5 - 3 bar, with similar pressure in the control pressure circuit. I had taken apart the WUR cleaned it and put it back together. The fuel pump delivered more than 2 liters per minute, as measured by disconnecting the fuel line from the accumulator. So that was without restriction, and not proper according the the Bosch booklets that show testing at the return port from the accumulator. I just retired from academic research, and am used to ruling in or out possible hypotheses, including the hypothesis that I am a dumb-ass. The system pressure could be low due to: A) Input pump unable to keep up with a wide open return to the tank via the frequency valve. B) Fuel regulator not working (but it had been fine before I rebuilt the motor). C) Pump not able to keep up with the demand. My idea was that it could generate proper pressure only if outflow was highly restricted. So what I did was to pull the fuel distributor out of the car, but still connected to the airplate. I hooked the fuel line from the pump to the inlet side of the regulator and put a hose on the return fitting so I could measure flow and collect extra gas. I left the pressure gauge in the normal spot at the top of the regulator. I then capped off the WUR return port, the frequency valve port as well as 4 of the 6 injector lines. I used really short 8 mm bolts with copper washers. In short, I had fuel input from the pump, unrestricted return, and blocked everything else. I left two injector lines attached to observe flow. The outcome was 2.5 bar system pressure. Fuel flow was 1.4 liters per minute via the return port, which is a bit low. Then I squeezed the return line with pliers and system pressure went readily to 4-5 bar. At that pressure fuel came out of the injector lines as I raised the airplate. Cool. Although the fuel pump is a bit wimpy, I am thinking the fuel pressure regulator is the likely suspect and could use some help. The regulator has one shim. Is there a place where you can buy shims? I see kits for about $125 that have O-rings, a spring and the push valve. I am thinking about fabricating shims, but would prefer to just get a few from a vendor. Any thoughts about the fuel pump? |
CIS troubleshooting............the wrong way.
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Warren, I don’t know what Bosch reference manual you have been reading but the test procedures you are doing are totally wrong. Why? Your concept and understanding how your CIS works is flawed. I offered to test your fuel distributor weeks ago for FREE in order to help you. You ignored it and refused to listen. I will let you alone and have your way. But if for some strange miracle you come to your senses, you know where to contact me. Wish you the best. Keep us posted. Tony |
Hi Tony,
Thanks for all of your help and kind offers. I sent you a PM. If I wait till I come to my senses, it could be a long pull. My wits are generally scattered far to seek. |
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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1600449957.jpg Here is what I think I know - subject to change.. I hope you can help me learn more Tony. The image has an attempt to color code things and I hope it is clear. 1. Fuel comes from the pump, through the accumulator and filter and a T to the cold start valve reaching the FD where I have a blue arrow. (Color does not represent actual fuel color) It enters a hollow cylinder with a piston and slits where it can be delivered to the injectors. 2. Fuel leaves the cylinder following the green arrow. The fuel pushes against a spring loaded piston in order to get out - this regulates system pressure. 3. System pressure enters the lower set of pressure regulators through an orifice. (purple arrow). Each lower chamber provides a reference pressure for the regulator valves in the upper half of the FD. All six chambers are connected by drillings. 4. The frequency distributor can modify lower chamber pressure via the drilling indicated by the red arrow. I now recognize that it is unlikely that the frequency valve could cause my problems. 5. The WUR modifies the movement of the piston by regulating pressure at the top of the piston. Pressure goes from the lower chamber through a tiny orifice in the diaphragm that covers a hole in the lower FD indicated by the orange-brown arrow. When the engine first starts the WUR allows gas to leave the chamber above the piston, flow is limited by the tiny hole in the diaphragm so pressure drops above this piston, so at a given load the piston uncovers more slit area, fuel flows faster into the injectors and you get cold start enrichment. There is a tiny drilling indicated by the yellow wire going from the lower part of the cylinder of the bottom part of the FD casting. I cannot remember off the top of my head what that drilling does, but I suspect it may dampen piston movement. I will look it up. The photo is of a spare FD that I bought from ebay years ago because I thought I might rebuild one someday. It looked remarkably clean on disassembly - which is a great reason to not take them apart. No really. I just couldn't resist seeing the innards in person. Warren |
Here is the upper half:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1600455490.jpg I am not showing the well-known piston, but it rides in the cylinder at left. Such dazzling machining. Better than any bling. The cylinder crosses between the upper and lower castings. It has a hollow inner chamber where gas enters through super fine nylon screen (1). Within that lovely cylinder are six minute slits only 200 microns wide (2). They line up with drillings that reach each upper chamber (3). The O-rings mean that each chamber is sealed to its slit. Movement of the airplate will raise and lower the polished piston that cuts off or progressively reveals the slits. Basic CIS stuff. More air more fuel. Within each upper chamber is an orifice linked to a fuel injector (7). Covering the orifice is a thin steel diaphragm (not in my picture). This is pushed towards the orifice by lower chamber pressure, but also pushed away from the orifice by upper chamber pressure. The upper and lower chamber pressures are fed by the same pump, so that ends up as a wash. But a spring in each upper chamber biases the diaphragm towards opening, reducing pressure in the upper chamber (4). This is brilliant because no matter how much your battery changes during the day or the pump varies, the pressure drop across the slits is always constant. Flow then is only affected by piston position from the airplate, and not disturbed by pump variation. The springs ride on spring perches surrounding the orifices (5). They support little caps which push against the diaphragm. In our 911s, the springs can be adjusted by changing the position of the spring perches. The perches ride on set screws, one set screw per chamber. |
CIS basic tests..........
Warren,
It is good that you went to the details of a fuel distributor. Forget for the moment about your post because you are getting too far ahead. What you need now is to learn and be able to measure fuel pressures (control, system, and residual). You probably know it by now. Test and evaluate the fuel pump. It has to deliver at least 1 liter per 30 sec. or 2 liters per min. Measure the flow rates before the fuel accumulator. Connect a pressure gauge to the main fuel deliver line and measure the max. pressure (head pressure) the FP could deliver. No need to run the FP too long. A 3-sec. test should be enough to get the pressure reading (shut-off valve closed). Hope you are not using a HF pressure gauge kit. Keep us posted. Thanks. Tony |
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1600456782.jpg
Each of the orifices leading to the fuel injectors has one of these filters. Only 5.5 mm across. No, I didn't drive the screw through the bottom of the filter. They have little nubs in the plastic. My FD had 5 out of 6. No idea what happened to the other one. There is a certain amount of debate about having them there as they tend to clog. I suppose it depends upon how you feel about replacing fuel injectors. |
It was pretty obvious to me after the fact that my warm up regulator wasn't causing the system pressure to be low. The connection between the top of the FD and the WUR is a Cohline tube about 1 mm in diameter. The flow is very limited and wouldn't likely send my system pressure crashing. This is a regulatory circuit rather than a way to get gas to the intakes. But I hadn't understood that at the time. So I took it apart and cleaned it. Now I will probably have to readjust it or maybe make it adjustable with a screw.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1600458723.jpg The way this works is there is a passage drilled in the top and bottom castings of the FD allowing flow of fuel to the top of the control piston. However, the steel diaphragm lies between the castings and has only a pinhole for gas to go through to enter this system. Because flow is so limited, anything that allows fuel to escape from the top will reduce the pressure on the piston and affect the A/F mixture. The WUR bleeds off some of this pressure, allowing the piston to rise and enrich the mix. This is controlled by yet another metal diaphragm covering a small orifice. A pin riding on what is called a sombrero transfers pressure from a spring and a bimetallic strip to that diaphragm. As the car warms up the strip pushes against the diaphragm via the pin and shuts off the flow of gas. This raises the pressure, called control pressure, and thus pushes down on the piston in the FD. So as the car warms up the mixture gets leaner. At one time the heat of the car was considered enough to do this trick, but later a resistance winding was added to heat the strip. Yet a second bimetallic strip with its own windings shuts off electrical heating after the car warms up. |
This may be where I have trouble. It is the only part of the fuel injection system that is easy to remove.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1600460481.jpg This regulator has no shims at all, but it the ebay regulator: the one in my car has a single 1 mm shim. And it runs at 2.5 bar system pressure. I wish I could see deeper into the drillings but my working idea is that the small O-ring and larger axial spring are the parts that allow fuel to return to the tank at a given pressure. Thus regulating system pressure. My other idea aboutb how this works is that the larger O-ring acts to preserve control pressure when the motor turns off. The WUR doesn't send its fuel directly back to the tank. Instead, it comes back to the pressure regulator portion of the FD. This would be the push valve portion. |
Now in way of an explanation, err...excuse for the test I ran. I used to teach a university course about the cardiovascular system. Pump, high pressure lines and drains. Having determined in the established way that system pressure was low, I tried to understand why. I have hypertension and get drugs aimed at opening up the drain lines for my blood, thus lowering pressure. An alternative treatment to lower pressure is to reduce pumping.
It seemed like I either had gas going in too slow to generate pressure, or was leaving too fast and deflating pressure. In the going in too slow category I has the pump, accumulator and filter to consider. In the going out too fast I decided to consider any fuel line that headed back to the tank or into the intake. My test removed several of these possibilities and produced exactly the pressures observed when the FD was installed completely. By running a line directly from where the gas enters the engine compartment I was able to bypass fuel accumulator and filter as possible restrictions. They were unlikely: the filter was new and the accumulator wasn't leaking at the bottom connection. I didn't connect the WUR. Put a pressure gauge at the top of the FD to measure system pressure and simply blocked the WUR return. Also unlikely but possible was the frequency valve. That port was blocked as well. A publication entitled Workshop Manual Porsche K-Jetronic Robert Bosch Indicated the fuel return line connection as the place to make delivery measurements. I believe that Probst also indicates this. This fit well into my concern that perhaps the pump was unable to deliver against a restriction. I know it isn't a common failure mode, but I was wondering if the filter sock in the tank might be clogged, producing cavitation or some such. The results were suggestive but not conclusive, in part because this isn't a standard test mode. Still, I discovered that the pump can produce appropriate fuel pressure and injector flow (once pressure came up). Pressure loss could only come from the regulator part of the FD. The other outlets were gone, and they weren't very likely in the first place. Such as it is. Thanks for everyone's patient help. Warren |
The pump goes up to 7 bar reliably. The fuel flow where fuel goes to the accumulator is 2.5 liters per minute. The gauge is from HF, but readings across several points in the 0-7 bar range match not only a new FLAPS gauge but also an old one from before the Harbor Freight era.
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CIS troubleshooting.........
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Warren, Well written. The problem could be two (2) fold: a). Your pressure gauge from HF is notorious for giving false readings. b). Your PPV (primary pressure valve) needs additional shim/s to produce 70 psi. If I install your FD in my tester, it will only take several seconds to do the test. And then calculate the needed shims. I suspected you have a HF brand gauge but had to ask to confirm. Your write up is excellent. Time to apply this knowledge into action and fix your CIS problem. Keep us posted. Tony |
Thanks Tony,
I give up. I always like to do it myself if I can. I was once known to make my own gravel with a sledge hammer - dumb, but I needed a wall gone and gravel for another project. I will give you a call for shipping advice. Warren |
i like the way you operate. Tony. cheers!
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Just talked with Tony about sending components. What a generous and warm hearted man!
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This forum is lucky to have him. Glad to see you’re on the right track! |
Testing CIS components..........FREE.
Ken,
The 2 sets fuel injectors (new & used) both passed the tests. The old used sets are still acceptable to use but their spray patterns are not as nice and uniform like the new set. Which you expect for buying new fuel injectors. BTW, the injectors are on their way to NY. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1601207641.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1601207641.jpg Warren, Did you ship the fuel distributor already? Please advise me of the expected date of delivery. Right now, I have plenty of work to do to keep me too busy for weeks to come. And in between tearing down a motor for cleaning and rebuilding for Bill P. Everyone stay safe and healthy. Tony |
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CIS components testing update........
Warren,
The package containing your parts for testing and evaluation finally arrived this afternoon (October 1). There are two (2) FD-077 and a WUR-072 in the box. You did not label which of the two (2) fuel distributors was in the car that you were working on. Any way, I did my best to get them tested and share my findings with you. FD-077 #925: System pressure = 69 psi. Good. Leak test: All six (6) ports do not leak and no visible fuel seepage around the FD body. FD-077 #344: System pressure = 56 psi. Out of specification (65~75 psi.). Leak test: All six (6) ports do not leak and no visible fuel seepage around the FD body. Note: Individual flow rate measurements were not done this time and will probably do it later after I catch up with my work load. WUR-072 #927: This will need some work to make it perform properly. The WUR will exhibit the same problem/s Mac-Porsche is experiencing with the cold erratic warm-up idle. It will not prevent the motor from starting/running but a noticeable erratic cold idle during transition will occur. I will have them ready for shipment back to you. You should consider getting a better pressure gauge kit to help with your pressure tests. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1601592485.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1601592485.jpg Tony |
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