Stater problems

[82SC]

well after buttoning up my SC after the 964 cam swap...

then getting the mixture adj...smog check...general things here and there at TRE...car runs beautiful...

BUT...my starter looks like it is going south...

keeps running even when the key is in my pocket...
Thank God I have one of those quick disconnects on my battery...

if you don't have one...get one...my starter could melt itself to the ground if I didn't have one...

Well the starter looks old so I am assuming it is the original unit...but I think I made the problem worse when I started the car up after the cam swap...I had to crank the engine to get the oil pressure up...then ran into non-start issuse and may have gotten too aggressive with the starter...

Callas Rennsport suggested I get a new starter when I had the PPI done 1.5years ago...didn't know if this was $$ driven or if the starter really was shot...oh well...it is shot now...

so what to do...should I swap it out and get the rebuilt ones??
or spend a little more and get the hi-torque ones???

or anyone have a good used unit sitting around??

just wanted to get some feed-back from those who have been down this path before...

Also do I need to do a partial drop? Full Drop? or be a german contortionist to get the old starter off??

MJ

[thrown_hammer]

The top nut is kinda hard to get to. I forget what size the allen nut is, but I cut off an allen wrench and had it welded into a socket. Made the top nut a breeze.

[82SC]

anyone have suggestions on starters themselves??

MJ

[CamB]

Search under "Nippon Denso" and my user name - there have been a couple of threads recently on the pros and cons of rebuilt vs high torque starters.

[82SC]

ahh the search function...lazy old me...

well read through some of the threads...
warren seems to be a proponent of disassembly and lubing of starters...

do you think that this would be worth my trouble in my situation...

I would rather save 250.00 and put in a little time on the weekend

But I am always hesitant about taking apart anything that is electrical...is this relubing a straight forward job??

what I don't want to do is put in all the work and not work...then waste a couple more day to get it from pelican...

your thoughts...?

[targa80]

The only way a starter is going to keep running with no key in the ignition is that the solenoid has arched its contacts or the solenoid contacts have not opened due to buinding when power was removed. I would pull the starter and clean the solenoid parts and contacts. Then test for proper operation before reinstalling.

[82SC]

is there a special way to test?? or just connect the starter to the battery?? For some reason that doesn't sound right...

Don't what that thing torquing out of my hand or something....

sorry if I sound like a dummie...but when it comes to anything electrical I am

anyone know a source of a blown-up diagram just so I can orient myself?

thanks

[makaio]

MJ, no partial or full engine drop is required. The hardest part is the top nut. But since you just had your motor apart, there won't be 25 years of gunk, siezing it on.

Personally, I would go with the "High Torque" starter, because I like the sound. That may sound stupid, but I like it.

[82SC]

btw I let the car cool off for 5 hours...I thought maybe the starter got hot because of the weather...about 225 oil temp

and froze up...but when I plugged in the batt it was just as bad if not worse, and was running even with the engine running

is this indicative of beinge utterly shot or does it still have a chance with a relube??

arrgghhh...one thing after another

that is what happens when the car is 20 years old...maybe everything is engineered to fail at the same time

MJ

[Tyson Schmidt]

I think your starter is toast at this point. The bushings are probably wasted after turning that many rpm's from being driven by the engine.

I'd recommend the high torque starter that Pelican sells, oddly enough.

They are much better than the tilton, and are lighter than stock to boot!

[82SC]

missed you at TRE this morning...went to pick up my car...so happy driving home...then this...ARGGGG...

oh those metal shaving ended up being the cam sprocket holder tool leaving metal shavings cuz it didn't it well...a couple other guys reiterated it...

also don't miss the post about the targa...kevin started the paint

MJ

[Erakad]

I don't know, but before I shelled out $200 for a new starter, I would ask an auto electric shop if they could rebuild it. Even in Smallville, USA where I live, they could rebuild my alt...said they'd do the starter too! Think about it, nothing magic about these starters...solenoid, big electric motor.

Bottom Line: See if it can be rebuilt.

[targa80]

After you pull the stater take the solenoid apart and you will more than likely find the main contacts arched together. clean the contacts and put back together. Ground the starter to the negative terminal of the battery then use a starter jumper switch ( two wires with alligator clips and a momentary switch) connect one wire to the positive side of the battery and connect the second wire to the small spade terminal that you disconnected the ignition switch wire from. press the momentary switch and listen for the solenoid to energize and close the main contacts. if that works now use a jumper cable from the + battery terminal to the main power terminal on the solenoid (this is the one where the heavy wire was removed before pulling the starter from the car). The motor should not spin until you press the momentary switch and the drive gear will pop out to the starter position. If this all works then you can reinstall into the car.

[78targa]

Well I went to the high-torque starter after my OEM one stopped turning when it got hot. It was a great choice and one I recommend. I believe it was cheaper as well.

As I currently have the engine out, I took a couple of shots that might help you out.

The first picture shows where the starter sits in relationship to the engine. The second should give you some idea as to where the mounting bolts are located. Using the starter as a reference, at 1 o'clock there is a 10mm hex-head nut. The best tool for this is an 8 inch long allen head socket. I think you could also get in there with a standard allen head on an extention. At 7 o'clock is a 17mm bolt; easy to see and get to.

Get the car up on jack stands in the rear and the job is pretty simple. It is an unbolt and swap job...1/2 beer....

Let me know if you need more info or pictures. Don't wait too long, the engine is going back in tonight.

[echrisconnor]

Targa 80 already posted this. I had this same exact problem a year or so ago. Pulled the starter and had it bench tested. It was fine. It was the ignition switch that was the problem.

Test it by hooking up a jumper to the solenoid lead and the big red hot wire. If you can make the starter turn off and on this way, the starter is fine. Don't put a test light on the lead from the ignition switch. It may turn on and off fine without heavy load (that's what mine did and threw me off for a while).

Before you invest in the starter be sure to have fully checked out the ignition swithch. They're a lot cheaper.

[Joe Bob]

Bosh SR68X