911 Hotrod Owners - is it WORTH IT?

[X JBM X]

i'm toying with some ideas, which generally change on an hourly basis, but i really wanted to ask the great pelican community about their hotrod or outlaw 911s.

what it all comes down to is: is it worth it?

i currently have an '84 3.2 that i bought from a fellow forum member back in 2013. since purchase, i've put approximately 10k miles on the car, and spent approximately $8k in small upgrades and/or maintenance items, beyond the $12k the previous owner spent during his 6 year ownership. i also have tons of records from the previous 3 owners.

the car is in phenomenal, nearly original condition. there are a few aftermarket parts and some areas of the car have been resprayed over the years, but it's only got 96k original miles. in my opinion, it's too nice an example to hack up and build a hotrod from.

so if i wanted to go hotrod, i'd sell this one and either buy one someone else mostly built and put my own touches on it, or buy a shell and build it out to my specs.

so what am i after? if i go the hotrod route, i want something that's more drive-able. and what i mean by that is i want me or my wife to be able to get in and go get groceries and not have any reservations - basically daily driver capabilities.

is what i'm after achievable? anything you can share about your build or purchase that maybe i'm overlooking? if you don't mind sharing numbers too, that could certainly help swing my mindset as well.

thanks all.

[911pcars]

Someone define "the hotrod route".

IMHO, it is whatever you think it is. If you provide some details from an existing car, people could weigh in as to the cost/benefit. Again up to you to decide. Your wallet is your ultimate guide.

Sherwood

[X JBM X]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Someone define "the hotrod route".

IMHO, it is whatever you think it is. If you provide some details from an existing car, people could weigh in as to the cost/benefit. Again up to you to decide. Your wallet is your ultimate guide.

Sherwood

well that's a pretty unhelpful response tbh. obviously i get what i pay for - no questions or reservations there.

define the hotrod route - well, in this case, a restomod that is comfortable/quick/reliable enough to be a daily driver 8 months out of the year - basically when there isn't snow on the ground

[msmall215]

Originally Posted by X JBM X

well that's a pretty unhelpful response tbh. obviously i get what i pay for - no questions or reservations there.

define the hotrod route - well, in this case, a restomod that is comfortable/quick/reliable enough to be a daily driver 8 months out of the year - basically when there isn't snow on the ground

"Hot rod" is one of those terms that can take on a life of its own depending on your vision. Budget is definitely a huge part of it, but it comes down to what you want out of your car. What are your personal objectives? Basically nothing will come cheap with any of these cars and there are tradeoffs. What era of 911 do you gravitate toward?

Looking for simplicity and purity? Look to a longhood with a smaller displacement motor that will rev freely...you could start with a solid 912, drop a six in, get it down to around 2200 pounds, and it'll be a blast. Will it rust either now or eventually? Yes. Will you spend an arm and a leg fixing that rust? Yes. You could buy a turnkey early hot rod but it won't come cheap.

With a later car like your 3.2, you have a platform that doesn't have as high a risk of needing significant metal work. You have a larger motor, but you also have a lot more weight and the car overall will feel different than an early car. Now, doesn't mean you couldn't put your car on a diet. Losing weight on these things is one of the cheapest routes to increase the fun factor. A chip and an exhaust change will give you some more oomph.

Now, of course you could backdate and have the look of an early car with the platform of a later car, but it won't be the same experience.

For me personally, hot rod means modifications to make the car perform better than it did when it left the factory coupled with some bits that stand out to you personally. Someone may have a different opinion. My car's suspension is redone, bigger T-bars, F&R sway bars, etc, custom exhaust and the motor is modified. Nothing outrageous, but it's certainly not stock and it suits my needs and desires.

This is just scratching the surface, but hopefully gives you a starting point for figuring out your vision. Above all, make it yours. Everyone likes something a little different, but your opinion is the only one that matters.

[1Bad86]

It sounds like a slightly modified 993 would suite you well. Good heat and A/C, quick, comfy, etc. Do you have a body style you prefer? I consider my car to be a bit of a hot rod but I wouldn't like to drive it everyday since it doesn't have heat or A/C etc. Since it's a weekend back road burner those things don't matter as long as I'm able to drive it. I will say that functioning A/C would be nice for those expressway trips though and may look into the electric A/C systems in the near future.

[Helix8]

If you "want something that's more drive-able. and what i mean by that is i want me or my wife to be able to get in and go get groceries and not have any reservations - basically daily driver capabilities" it sounds like a fairly stock 94k mile car already delivers that? It should be extremely reliable and comfortable as is.

I have an '84 that I have modified (hot-rodded?) into what is now 98% track HPDE. Stiffer suspension, polybronze bushings, weight reduction (2420 lbs) etc. I started with a pretty beat platform though. I would not want this to be my grocery getter.

As mentioned maybe a slightly more modern air-cooled platform should be considered? Is your car unreliable?

[blucille]

I think Helix8 is onto something and I think you really want more of a restomod than a hotrod.

What doesn't your current car do for 3 seasons that you would like? AC? Heated Seats?

Have you driven enough air cooled cars to get a feel for things?

Is vintage what you truly desire? I have a 2012 Cayman R that checks a lot of boxes but isn't vintage and isn't aircooled. Does it matter?

6 years ago, I bought a high-mileage but original paint 83 SC, it had been updated with a 3.6, I did some touches to the interior (recaros with seat heaters, central/remote locking) and added super cold AC....my wife would drive it, but certainly not to the grocery store....The cayman, sure she would.

My concept for the Cayman is 4 season, it gets very few miles in the winter, but it sure is a blast to drive in snow with the right tires.

The SC gets long drives, weekends away and an occasional work trip if headed away from traffic. (hard to do)

[RWebb]

I will define "the hotrod route"...

it leads out of NJ up into the Poconos



OP - just ask your self what specific things would improve your driving enjoyment

a chip is an easy one for the motor

next is the suspension - slightly stiffer torsion bars with digressively valved shocks will not harm ride comfort

are you willing to take some wt. out of the car?

[mikesarge]

"hot rod" is always a funny term to me. Seems more fitting for use by old guys to describe 30s era Fords with big blowers, more than a modified 911.

But I'm a "younger" 911 owner, and grew up in the euro tuner car scene.

Is my 911 a "hot rod" or "outlaw?" it's an SC with the supertec 3.1L cylinder/piston set, 964 cams, wevo shifter, stiffer bushings everywhere I could fit them, and SSI/dansk exhaust. It would be stock if I didn't find a broken head stud after I bought it.

So, it's not stock, it's not easily reversible. It's considerably quicker than it was stock, but it's totally drivable in traffic. hot rod? eh.. it's pretty tame. Outlaw? no speed holes, so I think I'm DQ'd there.

I could add ITB/EFI, does that make it a hot rod? what if I get lighter seats and remove some carpet and door cards?

You could always start with easily-reversible mods, like exhaust, shifter, strut brace, shocks, etc.. (and get a good alignment and corner balance), and see if that satisfies you.

If not, it's your car, so do what you want with it. I don't think it's worth worrying about keeping it original (though I guess many people do). Engine upgrades are expensive, and on these cars, they really don't seem to be a good return on $ per hp compared to the turbocharged cars I've built in the past. It really depends on what you're after.

I've never owned a vehicle that stayed stock for long, so I'm the wrong guy for advocating for an original car. I'd just keep in mind that your modifications don't necessarily add value toward resale.

[Check 6]

I would keep what you got and slowly improve and or enhance it. You have had it long enough to know it’s weak points and more so any hidden “ surprises” to sell it and start over could be costly . If you look at the “ Sc carpet” thread you will see a description and detail of the 15 year evolution of my SC and still evolving . Keep what you got, do lots of research and move slowly with any mods after fully deciding what you want in the end . I’m 78 and been around 911’s for decades and still learning

[Coastr]

You’re asking for more useabikity from your 3.2. It’s already EFI so I doubt it’s cold starts or part throttle that makes it hard to drive. Maybe it’s the 915 box? Is it the AC/heat/gadgets that is making it not a daily drive?

I think it would help if you specified what exactly you want from it that you aren’t getting, and what you want to keep that you are getting from it now.

Because from your description, a 964 with black wheels and stripes sounds like the right choice.

[ian c2]

To me ...

A hot rod is a car that is used on sunny weekends .
More power , less driveability .
Handles corners better , less comfort .
Etc etc
Don’t even need to have windscreen wipers were I live

A restomod is a classic car with modern amenities that can be used daily .
Enough power to keep up , but smooth modern delivery .
Handles better but ‘modern-car’ smooth with pas .
Etc etc
Extra sound deadening and interior comfort is much improved .

There are no lines , cut-off points etc and many/most cars are now in the grey area in between .
Indeed the early “sport purpose” 911 would keep carpets and heat etc , but unfortunately the systems are now outdated ,

Think Early 911 that followed the “sporting handbook” as a hot rod , and amg Mercedes g-wagon as a great factory example of Factory restomod .

Who in their right mind would take a 70s military 4x4 vehicle and shove a huge tuned v8 in it ?
A hot rod guy .

Who in there right mind would take a 70s military 4x4 vehicle and fit leather , pas , air , sat-nav , electric windows , cruise etc etc
A restomod guy .

Mercedes , I salute you !!
They’re a pig to drive , but the fact you did it deserves applause !!!

[ian c2]

My daily is what I would call a modified car , over here in us it may? Be called a hot rod .
I bought what I thought was the best dual-purpose car porsche offered at the time , then did a modern day “sport purpose” thing to my 997 .
Great to drive , modern amenities that work .
Rear cage means it only seats 2 , and cannot do grocery shopping etc.

Have i devalued it ?
Probobly .
Has my enjoyment value increased ?
Definately .
Is it a compromise ?
Oh yes ...
Is it what I WANT ?





I wouldn’t have done it if it wasn’t .
Why compromise when you’re spending your hard earned ?
Who cares if I lose money on it .
I’m a driver .
Not a collector .
Not a curator .
Not a seller .

[RarlyL8]

Modifying your car should not make it less drivable or your going in too deep. The Carrera 3.2L Mortonic is about as driver friendly as a G-body gets. If you want to "hot rod" it a bit then add a performance exhaust system that is not too loud (active exhaust anyone?) and a chip. That covers the hotrod sound and performance aspect of your build. Now move to aesthetics. Choose something that is pleasing to you but not too invasive, such as aftermarket wheels, lowering a bit, add a duck tail, etc. Lots of things you can do to make this car your own AND preserve it's value. Everything you do needs to be easily reversible and not adversely affect the driving and handling of the car. You CAN have it all!

[AFB24911S]

For what it's worth, I am in the middle of a "mild-rod" for future highway trips and backroad adventures that will eventually turn into a daily driver (wallet willing). My motivation was that my 1977 911 had 207k miles and pretty much needed everything to some degree, so why not make things marginally better while I'm there for drivability/comfort/reliability. Examples: re-covered seats, added seat heating pads; redoing suspension, adding poly-bronze bearings for longer service life and turbo tie rods for better road feel; re-doing AC system, will eventually bite the bullet and pay for that platinum electric system. "Hot" rod does feel inappropriate for these little cars, I think just breathing on them for usability and comfort and general enhancement is the play.

If I wanted a true hot-rod, I would have bought the 1968 Chevrolet Chevelle with the 350, 4 speed, red paint, black stripes, and roll bar that was on a used car lot within walking distance near college for 3 months straight. Still kicking myself I didn't do that, but then again if I had I'd probably have gone around every corner sideways and ended up with a lot of tickets.

[Bill Douglas]

I see it as "Introducing unreliability".

These cars are fantastic as they are. And a rare one is an original one.

[icarp]

I just got back from a 6 week 14,000 mile trip back and forth across the country in my
73 rs clone . 3.0 with small ports , cis , weighs 2250 lbs , 26 mpg , 230 hp at the crank, 14.2 qtr
Wow what fun, Kermit rocks
Ian

[darrin]

Have so enjoyed the seat heaters I had installed when I had my ripped front seats recovered, the recently installed Griffiths AC components that reactivated my dead-for-a-decade AC and active M&K exhaust (with cat). Along with the koni adjustable and 16x7 front / 16x8 rear Fuchs (with compliant/comfortable, yet responsive Michelin a/s3+ tires) I added a few years ago, these are helping make my '86 targa (at 180k miles) even more fun and satisfying to drive around than it was for the previous 140k I've driven it before) -- subtle tweaks that enhance (but don't fundamentally change) its character and maintain its status as my go-to ride.

[NickP]

In my eyes and per my definition I built a hot rod. Took a non-sunroof 72 911T coupe and went the ST route. It’s super fun and alive on the track and on weekend canyon runs. Not so great around town; its loud, somewhat stiff and has 4 point belts. Not a wife favorite, but since its a 3rd car and pretty much has its defined purpose its perfect for me. A hot rod can be great if you build it to suit your needs.

Happy to discuss concept, cost, timing and results with you as you navigate. PM me to connect. Nick

[Rtrorkt]

started life as a special order '69 912. Converted to RS Clone before I bought it. Been great fun on the road, at the track and at cars+coffiee. It falls into the "at least you can drive yours" category. Nothing is stock, make the mods that make me happy.