How Far Does One Go? My New Build
 

Okay, I have this new-to-me coupe and I want to build it into a comfortable street semi-Hot Rod. It's an '86 Carrera coupe that is nicely optioned; leather, sport seats, LSD etc. This will be my build thread for this car.

How far do I go? Is it desecration to pull stuff out like the center console, center automatic heating, air conditioning?

It's an original car, but I want to make it mine and make it lighter while maintaining some of it's creature comforts. The air conditioning is surely going to go, as it is anemic at best and heavy. The car also has an aftermarket stereo, factory alarm, (no keys that I found) and heavy bumper shocks. Funny, I have tried to bring my green Targa back to stock, and now I want to mildly hot rod my coupe. I will rebuild ALL of the suspension, do lighter clutch components, and fashion a few GT hints to the outside. Heavy bumper shocks will be replaced with lighter, etc. How far do I go and is it sacrilege?

This is how I bought it:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1615264921.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1615264921.jpg

The question is:
- how much "rod" do you want?
- how much time and effort do you want to put in?
- how much money are you willing to spend?

The big deal: you can backdate it with a sunroof delete. This needs bodywork, new parts and a respray (*)

The more quick and subtle way: delete that ridiculous tail (as it is not a Turbo, imho), swap the rear rubber bumpers to Euro, delete weight (**)

(* parts: sunroff delete panel, fender, longhood, front bracket, rear panel)

(* weightloss: 964 RS door panels, lighter battery, switch to RS carpet, switch US bumper shocks to Euro fasteners, switch exhaust to SSI)

As I’ve found with my own car, there’s really no limit or boundaries... and for the most part these cars aren’t really all that special, yea to us they are but not every Porsche is a unicorn and should most definitely be modded or hot rodded to reflect the owners personality.

I would recommend however that before endeavoring to change anything you spend some time contemplating exactly what you want both from appearance and drivability and then set out a master plan. It’s much easier to renovate a house with plans than to dive head first and wing it- without a guiding vision it gets very expensive and there are constant changes and lots of time is wasted.

With a master plan you can budget your money and time such that you don’t miss out on driving it yet still have the project moving along.

As for the bumpers- I was in the same shoes and started by lightening them up, then I started to tuck them and modify them a bit and then after all that work and time spent (and luckily not much money) I decided to go with fiberglass bumpers. I wish I would have thought about it more in the beginning as I would have saved a lot of time and swearing ;)

Anyhow, good luck and keep us posted!!!

I think you're on the right track, subtle and effective mods focused on improving function and lightness..... without going overboard.

There's a Pelican with the tagline... "Your classic car owns you. You own your hot rod."

It's a thing. I've suffered it. In fact, it's a big part of the reason I recently sold my 60k mile, original paint '88 M491 on BaT. It's also the reason I kept my 108k mile, repainted, mildly wife-unfriendly '87 M491 hot rod. On the continuum between purist and hot rodder, I fall slightly to the right of centrer. On the one end, some cars should be 100% preserved / restored, On the opposite end, some cars, especially rough cars or basket cases, should be hot rodded to their owner's delight. I'd argue that most cars fall somewhere in the middle. So, I say "you do you" and mod away. It's your money.

I just acquired an '89 coupe. 133k miles. Powertrain is solid with a relatively recent top end. The cosmetics are rough. It needs a bare metal respray and most of the interior redone. For the most part, I subscribe to the "First, do no harm." theory. Keep your mods to 100% reversible items and although you may not end up with your perfect vision, you'll guard against "what were you thinking" type regrets down the road. You'll also save some money. Potentially A LOT of money.

I'd love to do a sunroof delete during my respray, bur it will add at least $7k to the cost. That puts me over my body & paint budget, so no can do.

I agree with the advice of developing a master plan by living with the car for awhile and truly understanding what you want and what you don't want based on your use case. Then again, this isn't your first air-cooled 911 rodeo, so you can move more quickly through that process than a noob.

As our 911 cars age eventually they will be like the sought after 356’s. A desired original classic car will always claim a higher resale value. Granted, I’m sure the production runs on the 911’s far exceeds the 356 cars but overtime they will also become harder to find. It is your car so do what you want with it as long as it makes you happy. If you bought to be an investment then don’t’ touch it or drive it. Put it in the garage and just maintain it so you can show your friends and eventually sell it for a big profit. Several years ago I had a guy ask me to help him buy a 911 because he wanted it as an investment that he can resell in a couple of years. Needless to say I declined to help him. Enjoy your car and do what puts a big grin on your face. I always enjoy having someone come up to me and ask about my car because they always wanted one since they were a kid. I am asked many times if I would sell it and my stock answer is would you sell your first born. One guys response was “YES, in a heartbeat would you take my oldest son as a equal trade” and I think he meant it.

Yes, the whale tail will get replaced with a duck tail. My extra wheel set 7/8 x 16 Fuchs are being done in RSR right now, so I'm reading the current tire threads closely.

Cibie Pallas lights are bought. Perusing Elephant and Rebel Racing websites. Time and money, I've got both. For now.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1615299970.jpg

Love Cibie Pallas

Do what you like and what makes you happy. That is a nice car and I don't see how any of your planned mods will do anything to detract from that. Agree with famoroso to keep as much as possible to "reversible items". Looking forward to the results!

I was going to suggest you get rid of those God awful headlight rims but I see you did that.

There was a gentleman on here who wrote the text book on weight reduction. I played around with his excel to come up with an easy way to calculate weight loss (front, rear and center) from different permutations. PM me and I’ll send it to you. You might have better luck converting it to google sheets than I have, as I’m sure others can play with it.

I increasingly think that this is the witching hour for our ICE cars. In time (sooner than we on this forum dare to think), anything that’s not marquee and can’t be appreciated as art will have diminished value (in a monetary sense). So if you’re into maximizing the value equation, and can look fwd 20 years, it might make sense to do things today that increase the emotional and experiential value (since the monetary value won’t matter). So my vote is have at it. Either do that as an expression of your wants and desires or a celebration of Porsche DNA. I get most excited when those lines intersect

I wouldn’t call it a build, modification is more accurate.

I always start with a list of what I don't like about a car and what I want the car to do. This will prioritize a few things.

What don't I like about car?
Is it not performing up to standard?
Is it handling?
Is it power?
Is it cosmetic?
Etc.

What do I want the car to do?
Street cruiser?
Back road bomber?
Track capable?
lap time chaser?

Answers to these questions will guide you.

More importantly, Drive the car - A LOT! The car should speak to you and tell you what it wants. Once you bond with the car you will know. This always takes some time. Be patient. There is no rush to do what other people think is cool.

That's a Carrera tail, not a turbo. It was a factory option for that year and is the correct rear spoiler for that car.

Its almost perfect! No cibies!!!
Use the Wheels you are getting RSR'd + some euro bumperettes and drive it..

Congrats Lawrence

Thanks Dean.

that is not what I meant.
If you like it, keep it, nothing wrong with that.
For me though optically these tails look off on non-Turbo cars.
You can drive a Carrera fast without them and they look better too without.
plus, the weight saving at rear is higher rated than a possible loss of downforce.

I speed my SC without any tail at 200km/h on the Autobahn with no issues.

Do you run 200 or faster in the USA?
I guess not.

You started with the best of both worlds, a hot rodded Targa the PO put the money into and a nice stock Coupe that appears to require nothing. Both just need to be driven. Now the Targa is returned to stock and the coupe is going to be hot rodded? Kind of a head scratcher? Both cars are pretty nice and I will enjoy watching your progress. Best of luck to you and thanks for sharing.

I think I measured the downforce provided by a Carrera tail at 27 pounds.

That's at 0 km/hr, and goes up slightly with added speed :)

Job 1 - drive the damn thing!

This is solid advice, kind of what I'm doing in the honeymoon stage.

I completely agree with Flo on the look of these tails on narrow body cars, they don't look right to me. I may do a duck tail instead. I'll keep the whale tail for a future owner, but I don't see selling this car in the foreseeable future.

Ducks are cool and so are mini ducks....

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/1032842-65-89-mini-ducktail-wing.html

Maintenance first...
 

Hi Larmo,
Great looking car.
My suggestion is to first go over the car carefully to see what it needs. At almost 35 years old, it may have some needs: the list is endless, brakes, wheel bearings CV boots, Rack bellows, just about every rubber part may be approaching the end of its life, fluid leaks, brake flush, and on and on. See what it needs, then prioritize/budget that list.

Talk to others with similar cars, talk to the folks at Renline, Elephant Racing and read similar forum threads.

Inevitably, as you do maintenance, you will come across "opportunities" to do upgrades and "As long as i am in there" improvements. Like a brake fluid flush, if the pads are ok but getting low, or the brake lines are not ageing well, might as well pack the front wheel bearings, are the discs within spec??? With the wheels off, this might be the time to do some spectacular wheel well lights, (just kidding).

By having a direction and a plan, you can try to avoid duplication of effort, like having to repeat alignment/cornerweighting, (expensive) after a bushing refresh, then wanting to upgrade the T bars.

Once you have the immediate car needs, (safety and reliability) handled, you can drive the car and decide how you want to repurpose the car. You might want to break the work into related groups by priority, so you can enjoy the car and you don't end up like me with a 74 that has been off the road for almost 10 years.

Lastly, Beware of the slippery slope and "motor gently through the grease-mud, for there lurks the SKIDDEAMON".
chris

Congrats, Lawrence!
You've seen how far I went. Getting that rowdy isn't necessary to have an enjoyable car, especially since you have such a clean starting point!

A lot of good opinions here. Personally, I'd drive for a while, fix the little stuff "new" cars always need, and figure out what you want to change. You keeping the green one? If so, one can be the hotrod..

I did a PPI on this car so I know what is going on underneath.

I have a pretty good idea what maintenance it will need and where we go as far as rubber stuff.

The fun part will be suspension. I love to do suspension.

By the way, my son's 993 got new wheels today:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1615431431.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1615431431.JPG

fix that wheel gap :-)

The clear euro turn signal lenses would also clean up the front end, but that is more of a personal preference;)

Some of us have been there.

My '87 M491 was originally delivered as an M470 "without spoilers" car. Sometime during the ensuing 30 years before I acquired it, it sprouted a tea-tray tail. I removed the tail, effectively "re-deleting the tail delete," but then I also deleted the original front spoiler delete by adding a 930 rubber front lip spoiler. Did you follow that tale of deletion? Go figure!

As I like to say... Every dog outside wants to be inside and every dog inside wants to be outside...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzBsUStl7AR/?igshid=1q6ts7um27b1c

The 993 will be lowered soon.

Make it a Safari look 911.
Raise it a few inches and try 27inch tall off road tires.
Front skid plate, replace the heavy bumpers.

Whelp, the green car is getting some interior work done and a transmission rebuild. We will re-seal the motor too while it's out.

It's going to get sold so I can spend stupid money on this car.

It's an addiction, I admit it.

Look forward to seeing it on the road .
The 993 too .

and brakes.
these two topics are key for ANY car to be able to show what it is made of.

The brakes were all gone through before I bought the car, but I'd like to take a look at what they did. Everything checked out decently on the PPI I had done.

What is the trick brake upgrade? I looked at StopTech recently.

Your stock brakes are actually very good for street performance.
Turbo brakes are more robust and can take the heat and abuse of track work.
If you never go to the track keep them stock.

Quack quack
 

Larmo...the slippery slope can have a sharp fall off...I too started with the suspension years ago...went with Elephant Racing poly products, etc., b/c I wanted to do it myself (track-ish car, but coilovers meant paying someone)...these days I don’t have the space for DIY, but I recently took a HUGE bite...after obsessing after Flojo’s ride. It started as a sunroof delete and ducktail...5.5 months in and about 80% of the car has been resprayed with a new interior on the way...I’ve been obsessing so much while car is a away, I can’t find any new vids on YouTube...it is a sickness...good thing these forums exist...great resource...have fun!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1615951566.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1615951566.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1615951566.jpg

I remember having my 914 laid up while I was getting the chassis ready to install a 2.4S motor. The longest ten feet was the distance between the motor on the stand and the car.

Having the car to drive is a plus. Having it on jack stands is painful, I remember. I did get it in and finished, but so frustrating to wait.

Luckily, now I have two Porsches.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1615956049.jpg