Should I delete my A/C?

[Jim Sims]

Actually, if the old lines are not leaking and the fittings are not marred they may be readily reused as the mineral oil in the R-12 systems coats the interior of the lines and greatly slows down the diffusion of the R-134a refrigerant. Since the mineral oil is not miscible with R-134a it tends to stay in place and continue sealing the old hoses. However, if one needs to replace hoses I agree that one should use the new barrier hose; I would only recommend reusing the old flare type fittings where one has to: such as the connections to the condenser and evaporator. Other places I would switch to the o-ring style (at the compressor and receiver/drier since the o-ring type are much less leak prone. Cheers, Jim

[ruf-porsche]

Originally posted by shrouded
I believe the system is bone dry. I have meticulous records from the PO's, & there is no mention of a recharge. In any case, which parts can I safely remove without having the system evacuated? The 101 parts book talks about removing the compressor without having the system evacuated first. How far can I go without releasing the gases? Should I have it evacuated if it looks like it is empty?

None of the major components can be removed safely if there is still freon in the system. The evaporator, condensor and compressor are all under pressure if freon is still in the system. Even though the a/c system may not be cooling, it doesn't mean the system is out of freon. There are many reasons why a fully charge system may not be cooling, expansion valve not working correctly, dirt or water in the system, etc.

[Steve W]

Okay, I'm one of those guys that if you drive in warm to hot weather in the daytime, you need your AC. If you're well dressed going anywhere important, do you need to smell and feel like a dog? Anyways in lieu of R12, did you know you could substitute propane in it's place? Works like a champ, equal or better efficiency than R12, and compatible with all the hoses and oil in the system. You only need about 14 oz to do a complete charge. The ideal mix is if you blended in about 20% isobutane. Some guys may raise all these issues about this and that and whatever, but it's mostly a lot of propaganda by the AC industry to profit on the new refrigerants. If Dupont was so concerned about the ozone layer, why is it still manufacturing R12? Just go to any AC shop in Mexico and you find plenty of cans and 30 lb tanks of it available cheap, and who's on the label, you guess it - Dupont. Anyways the new line of R12 substitutes you find marketed now in the back of magazines and on the internet are pretty much these cocktails of propane - the socalled hydrocarbon substitute. That is now that the government has legalized its use in automobiles.

[rstoll]

Yeah, you just don't want to blow a hose. Keep that fire extinguisher handy!

[Doug Zielke]

When I want A/C, I ride one of my motorcycles!

Removing the a/c and backdating the heating system, has made my car a joy to work on. But I can understand folks who live in NM and CA etc.; they want/need a/c that works.

Mongo like AC.

[ruf-porsche]

Originally posted by UTKarmann_Ghia
I'm considering the same thing for my 911 Rob. I also have a York compressor and from that little window in the fender well, it's completely empty. I'd rather not spend over a couple hundred bucks right now (maybe later, maybe) for A/C, but if I could check for leaks and then maybe refill with R12 (from somewhere) I'd be willing to do that kindof work also. Since I've never done any A/C work, how could I check my system for leaks to begin with?

I don't know what that little window in the fender well is for? Most conventional receiver / drier has the sight glass on top. And if you see bubbles in the sight glass it usually mean the system is low on freon. If you don't see bubbles in the sight glass it could mean the system is empty, full or over full.

Because the sight glass on a 911 is on the side and not on top, the sight glass in a 911 has a little ball that is suppose to rise if freon is flowing through the receiver. I think in order to get the ball to rise the system has to be running for at least 5 minute (stabilize the system) and the engine rpm has to be at 2000. I have never seen the ball in the sight glass rise, even though I know the system is fully charged.

If you don't have electronic sniffer to check for leaks, you can try using soap bubbles.

Check the thread looking to buy some R12 Freon. The guy had the propane isobutane gas install inhis 911 in lieu of R12 or R134a. I think he mentioned that it only cost him $75.00 to have the system evacuated and charge with the propane - isobutane mixture.

[GSpreeman]

The fiance is away for a week so I can spend some time on the car. Out of curiosity, how does pulling out the A/C affect resale price?

[banjomike]

Here's a thought. The whole system, with all of the hoses, fans, compressor, etc. weighs a bout 70 lbs. Getting rid of that weight is like adding horsepower, improving your brakes, and hadling all at once.

[tomt]

I too am considering removing the AC. In your experience do the AC shops know how to properly remove freon from a 911?? I wouldn't know where to point them... any pointers?
Rgds,
TT

[jazzbass]

The high side and low side valves are right there on the side of the compressor. I would imagine almost any A/C shop can evacuate the system for you no problem.

[brawlins]

Don't take it out!
When I'm in the car, I don't use it. I roll the windows down because I don't like the power loss with the compressor on.
HOWEVER, my wife (as with most wives) likes the A/C on.

So you can have it both ways: Leave it on but turn it off!

[89911]

I just finished removing the remnants of my AC, (hoses, smuggler box crap, and front condesor). I even got rid of the controls in the center consol. I don't want to even be reminded that it ever existed. It sounds like AC in a 911 is a never ending money pit. It is really simple why. The ENGINE is in the back and you need the COLD AIR to come out the front. This only can be attempted to be addressed by running enough lines in and out of your car to make the Alaska pipeline envious. Sure there are those that have cold air after much trials and tribulation. And for those that live in a hot climate, I feel for you. But if you don't, jettison it. Its amazing how once it's gone, it looks like it never existed.

[dd74]

I'd most definitely take it out. It doesn't work well enough for "many wives," and real P-car owners don't need it.

Of course, that's conjecture. Nevertheless, 50-70 lbs is a lot saved on these little cars. Also, it takes an arm and a leg to get it working correctly, if at all. You can put a newer, better system on, but in the case of an older 911, you don't really benefit until you get a newer dashboard with better venting.

When I removed mine, a big gaping hole was left when I ditched the under dash Behr unit. I simply routed a hose from that along the bottom of the dashboard, and voila, fresh air. Which is the best sort of air anyway.

[kepperly]

Any! Any! Porsche that has had its climate controls removed is
not a canidate for me to even think about purchaseing. If the car
came with an option on the Cardex I would want it on the car and functioning before I would consider buying it. I don,t want an apology when I call about a car, just the condition and mileage
and make sure that all systems are functioning. I don't race and enjoy these oem features.

Keith Epperly

[89911]

I think many, including myself, have resale value as a non issue with our cars. I'll never get what I put into it. Which is good, because I ain't selling it. I'm sure there are many 911's which have a perfectly original, unaltered, nonworking AC that they are selling.

[dd74]

Originally posted by 89911
I think many, including myself, have resale value as a non issue with our cars. I'll never get what I put into it. Which is good, because I ain't selling it. I'm sure there are many 911's which have a perfectly original, unaltered, nonworking AC that they are selling.

Exactly my thoughts: half of the options that came on my car were removed either because they didn't work, or they simply took away from what I wanted the car to be. Again, I wouldn't hesitate removing the A/C.

Oh, and as far as resale value goes, resale in real estate, not Porsches.

[GSpreeman]

Keith,

I would tend to agree with you. I'm not going to be tracking my car and someday I will want to get top dollar when I trade or sell it. It's easier to explain to a buyer that Porsche A/Cs never work that great and it is what it is as opposed to pointing to a large cardboard box and explaining that the A/C will be very costly to ever get running properly and oh, by the way, you need to find someone to put it back in before you even start troubleshooting it.

[Adam]

Ditch it!

Even after you've taken out a 2nd mortgage to get it working properly,
it's still not worth two gobs of billy-goat *****.

[fintstone]

I also live in Albuquerque and find it almost impossible to drive my porsche in the summer. Unless you plan on only using your car on the track or at nightduring the summer, I would recommend either leaving it installed or keeping the parts so you can change your mind. Better yet, pull everything out and I will come by to haul them away for you. I will be installing aftermarket A/C this month.