Flywheel and starter problems

[slagburger]

Hi all....I will try and make this as short as possible...
Bought a 69 911t, my first Porsche last year....upon arrival I noticed the starter noise not sounding 100%...this got worse after around 8 starts..and eventually failed and I had to pull engine.....replaced chewed up flywheel and everything else around it with correct parts...noticed original Bosch starter which looks new would spin both ways so went with a new high torque starter which I was advised to do....put everything back,,,I thought done a great job....used the car about a dozen times when the other day I heard not such a nice starter noise....then the squeal.....removed starter and new flywheel has teeth missing now....help needed....don’t want to replace all again and it fails again.....
Tony

[Gianni at Pelican Parts]

Hopefully some other members who have dealt with flywheel/starter issues can chime in here.

There's a few How to Tech Articles about upgrading starters but none seem to mention flywheel alignment or issues.

[MichaelSJackson]

If the starter is not installed flush, flat and tight, then the starter gear can bind against the ring gear and even break off teeth? Same thing if the mounting bolts work loose. So much torque generated by the starter, it's going to twist itself if you give it any chance.

[thor66]

the starter doesn't fit right

not uncommon with the aftermarket ones

[walt]

Check and make sure you got the correct starter for your application. Maybe you did not have full engagement.

[Mark Henry]

Some of the older Hi-torque start sat in too deep (IIRC), then they fixed this with a shim and the new ones the issue is fixed correctly.
I was against the aftermarket starters at first, but I have one on my 3.0 twin plug and it turns over super fast. BTW I made my starter conversion ring for my /6 to 901 adapter for my 914... so I have a good idea of what I'm talking about.

The Bosch starter works good, but I use the ford solenoid hot start fix.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by slagburger

Hi all....I will try and make this as short as possible...
Bought a 69 911t, my first Porsche last year....upon arrival I noticed the starter noise not sounding 100%...this got worse after around 8 starts..and eventually failed and I had to pull engine.....replaced chewed up flywheel and everything else around it with correct parts...noticed original Bosch starter which looks new would spin both ways so went with a new high torque starter which I was advised to do....put everything back,,,I thought done a great job....used the car about a dozen times when the other day I heard not such a nice starter noise....then the squeal.....removed starter and new flywheel has teeth missing now....help needed....don’t want to replace all again and it fails again.....
Tony

Obviously, the two (flywheel and starter pinion gear) aren't getting along. Perhaps the tooth patterns aren't compatible. Perhaps the pinion gear is only partially engaging.

Measure the distance between the starter motor mounting surface and the flywheel ring gear. With the starter on a workbench, extend the pinion gear to it's maximum reach, then measure that distance. The two distances should confirm the two will fully mesh when engaged. In addition, rig a setup to confirm the starter pinion moves the required distance when the motor is energized on the bench.

Torque reduction starters are typically built/rebuilt with pieces from various sources (e.g. Hitachi or Denso starter housings) and with vehicle-specific mount adapters. That invites some errors in assembling the correct pieces.

Sherwood

[pmax]

Given these ‘new’ hitorque starters are assembled in the cheapest factory they can find, out of whack tolerances is no surprise. One ruined starter ring messes up your whole week and month for a DIY. Sorry, to me the risk reward is just not there.

Go with the OEM part.

[cabmandone]

I had this happen
Intermittent Starter issue Starter spins but not engaging

Not saying that's your problem but it made a nasty grinding noise. Might be worth looking at your old starter.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by pmax

Given these ‘new’ hitorque starters are assembled in the cheapest factory they can find, out of whack tolerances is no surprise. One ruined starter ring messes up your whole week and month for a DIY. Sorry, to me the risk reward is just not there.

Go with the OEM part.

The ones I've had on two cars were fine. That's a poll total thus far of 2.

[Mark Henry]

Originally Posted by pmax

Given these ‘new’ hitorque starters are assembled in the cheapest factory they can find, out of whack tolerances is no surprise. One ruined starter ring messes up your whole week and month for a DIY. Sorry, to me the risk reward is just not there.

Go with the OEM part.

If it wasn't for aftermarket parts our cars would no longer be on the road.

[gsxrken]

Poor electrical connections from battery to ignition switch to 14 pin connector to starter can result in lower voltage to the bendix gear, causing it to not fully extend and thus grind.
The fact that two separate ring gear and starter combinations exhibit the same symptom would cause me to look even harder at the electrical end of things, which was common between teeen the two configurations.

[Mark Henry]

Never heard this one before, my experience is they work or they don't, but my ford solenoid hack (link below) will fix any low voltage issues. If it's not opening all the way I'd more suspect a mechanical or dirt issue.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=308904&mode=threaded]http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...p;mode=threaded]914World.com - The largest online 914 community!

[Joe Bob]

I would go with the starter that last worked. If you suspect it might have issues, find an old school rebuilder that doesn't use junk parts and have it rebuilt. There are still some of them out there but they be old as dirt unless the owner trained under the master or is his offspring.

Good luck.

[911pcars]

If a voltage issue, you would notice a decrease in cranking speed. Do you? At any rate, the starter pinion gear doesn’t rely on rotation speed to engage the the ring gear. The solenoid energizes and mechanically extends the pinion and overriding clutch toward the ring gear. The electrical energy to do this is no where near what’s needed to energize the motor.

Has this been an issue since the last time parts were replaced inside the clutch area? If so, odds are two different starters with the same issues might indicate a possible issue with the ring gear (different gear spacing, incorrect location, etc.).

S

[Ian Comerford]

Originally Posted by pmax

Given these ‘new’ hitorque starters are assembled in the cheapest factory they can find, out of whack tolerances is no surprise. One ruined starter ring messes up your whole week and month for a DIY. Sorry, to me the risk reward is just not there.

Go with the OEM part.

This isn’t completely correct, there are some good quality high torque starters out there such as Wosp and Brise. The Brise on my car is the same model as fitted to the DLF engine and definitely not made in China.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Ian Comerford

This isn’t completely correct, there are some good quality high torque starters out there such as Wosp and Brise. The Brise on my car is the same model as fitted to the DLF engine and definitely not made in China.

Most if not all are all based off Denso units.