Carrera 3.2 Problems Starting

[AshwinSuppiah]

Hi, *****************************UPDATE FIXED!!!!***************************************** ******


**********************************FIXED NO START********************************************* *


I've been trying to get our Carrera 3.2 up and running
Pulled the plugs out today, drained the oil from the sump, replaced the fuel pump(was done 4 years ago).

Plug from cylinder 3 had signs of no combustion (could either be no fuel or no spark, will have to do further tests)

Tested the resistance of the all the sensors.

Tested the voltage sweep of the air flow meterwith an osciloscope(smooth sweep up and down)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ctm_1JoiaA <----------------- Video of actual test



Checked the full throttle switch for continuity/ checked the idle switch for continuity.
Intake air temp sensor resistace is within spec
Cylinder head temp sensor resistance is within spec
Speed sensor resistance is within spec (will test output voltage wave with osciloscope tomorrow)
TDC sensor resistance is within spec (will test output voltage wave with osciloscope tomorrow)
Idle control valve is vibrating and resistance is within spec

Replaced DME relay - This caused the fuel pump to run continuously, you can hear it chugging away. Link to video




The fuel line was disconnected at the fuel filter such that the 4 year old fuel could be drained. There could be air within the fuel system. Will try to bleed the system tomorrow.

I have no idea why the fuel pump is running with the ignition OFF.
Voltage across the fuel pump fuse is 0V, this leads me to believe that the fuel pump is somehow 'hotwired'.

We tried to start the car, but it doesn't want to idle.
is a video of the car starting.
Any throttle input will cause the engine to stall.
The car is definitely running on less than 5 cylinders, even if it were, it should be running much better than it currently is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RmrU_ZUahs

I've ordered a new ignition coil and spark wire set from pelican( as i don't live in the states it will take a couple days to get to me).

Help required

Kind Regards,
Ash




HI Everyone,

The no start issue has been fixed.
It turned out to be a few issues with the car.

1. The car had used to hunt. This was due to two issues ;
a. Idle Control Valve was faulty
b. Crack in throttle body boot

2. The main no start issue was due to faulty ignition system.
a. Replaced spark plug wires
b. Distributor cap
c. Rotor
d. Ignition Coil

3. Injector in cylinder 3 is still jammed. All injectors are yet to be pulled out and sent for a cleaning service.

I'd like to thank everyone who has helped me diagnose the issue along the way.

[proporsche]

have a look at the fuse no 6 (or look at the index on the fuse cover -fuel pump fuse)
from windshield direction and take a picture.so we i can see it...the wires going to it.

ivan

[jlex]

Try a different DME relay. May be a short in the relay itself that's making the fuel pump run. Get a noid light to see if power is going to all injectors. Could also be a stuck injector. May want to tap each injector with the engine running to see if you can free it up.

[gomezoneill]

Position and reference sensors. Check them.

[AshwinSuppiah]

Originally Posted by proporsche

have a look at the fuse no 6 (or look at the index on the fuse cover -fuel pump fuse)
from windshield direction and take a picture.so we i can see it...the wires going to it.

ivan

Here are the photos, I've also uploaded a video to youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIEMVqVGowE

Thank you

[AshwinSuppiah]

I used MAF cleaner to clean the connectors for the Speed/crank and temp sensors.
Then I started the car, this was around 7am, so it would have been around 25 degrees C
The car started, ran OK for around 2-3 minutes.

It had problems starting after that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s1_M_k6ock

I was really happy that it managed to start and at least maintain combustion for a few minutes.

Also found out that fuel injector in cylinder 3 is not functioning.
Will be pulling out the fuel injectors tomorrow and sending them off to RC Fuel Injection in Southern California.

[GH85Carrera]

There are several dozen (if not more) threads on Pelican about no start issues on the 3.2. Do a search, and read them all.

If is the very basics first. Everyone knows, that it requires air, fuel and spark to have ignition. The air of course is pretty simple to eliminate as a problem.

So do you have fuel coming out of the injectors? Remove the air cleaner, and squirt a short blast of starting fluid into the intake. Any new sputter or firing at all when cranked?

If so, you have a fuel delivery issue. If no, you have an ignition or spark issue. Work from that data point.

[AshwinSuppiah]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

There are several dozen (if not more) threads on Pelican about no start issues on the 3.2. Do a search, and read them all.

If is the very basics first. Everyone knows, that it requires air, fuel and spark to have ignition. The air of course is pretty simple to eliminate as a problem.

So do you have fuel coming out of the injectors? Remove the air cleaner, and squirt a short blast of starting fluid into the intake. Any new sputter or firing at all when cranked?

If so, you have a fuel delivery issue. If no, you have an ignition or spark issue. Work from that data point.

I've read all the posts, also i have the workshop manual as well as the bentley manual and I've been using their troubleshooting tables.

The car definitely has a fuel delivery issue, injector in cylinder 3 is not actuating(did a test with a 9v batt)

Also, the fuel pump runs continiously, even with ignition OFF. Have to disconnect the battery to stop it from running. New DME that was bought 10 years ago.

I suspect that the fuel is just being sent back to the return line and pressure is not building up in the fuel rails.

I'm waiting on a fuel pressure test kit which I should be receiving shortly.

I did a test with spraying carby cleaner into in MAF, it does run.

[GH85Carrera]

That is for sure a fuel delivery issue. If there is a local Porsche club or a source of another 3.2 owner somewhere with a good running 3.2, a good test is to put your DME, (not just the relay) in their car. If it does not run, that is the problem for sure. Don't put their good DME in your car as that DME can be damaged if there is something messed up electronics. If you have access to the OEM chip, use that. After you get it running then try the Steve Wong chip for a better running engine.

Since you are in New Zealand, you have a lot less options for simple parts supply. The solid state DME relay is a good option to be sure that is correct.

Obviously the fuel pump running all the time is a major issue you need to address first as it should only run when the starter is running or the engine is running.

How old is the gasoline in the system? I have seen several people fighting a no start issue and come to find out it was old gas, plugged fuel filters, or pressure sensors.

You have a challenge that is not going to be fun to fix, but once you figure it out, please post you solution to this thread for the next guy to find.

[AshwinSuppiah]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

That is for sure a fuel delivery issue. If there is a local Porsche club or a source of another 3.2 owner somewhere with a good running 3.2, a good test is to put your DME, (not just the relay) in their car. If it does not run, that is the problem for sure. Don't put their good DME in your car as that DME can be damaged if there is something messed up electronics. If you have access to the OEM chip, use that. After you get it running then try the Steve Wong chip for a better running engine.

Since you are in New Zealand, you have a lot less options for simple parts supply. The solid state DME relay is a good option to be sure that is correct.

Obviously the fuel pump running all the time is a major issue you need to address first as it should only run when the starter is running or the engine is running.

How old is the gasoline in the system? I have seen several people fighting a no start issue and come to find out it was old gas, plugged fuel filters, or pressure sensors.

You have a challenge that is not going to be fun to fix, but once you figure it out, please post you solution to this thread for the next guy to find.

The fuel pump and filter was replaced by my dad who thought it had died around 4 years ago when he was trying to diagnose the issue. That was the last time the car was worked on. Our porsche specialist had moved back to England

Before I started doing engine work, the fuel line at the fuel filter was removed, connected to a hose and I drained the tank. Brand new fuel is in the tank.


There is a fuel pressure test kit in the mail, i'm going to test the fuel pressure in the rails. I suspect now that the fuel system is not being pressurised.

I did a check by letting the pump run, then disconnect the fuel rails to see how much fuel comes out. fuel just triclkes out now. There is more fuel that comes out of the left rail than the right.

I also took off the AC compressor, gives me a lot more room to get to fuel lines.







It might not be clear in the photo, but the fuel line has some crud in it. Will be ordering new fuel lines and now have to replace them. It looks like I might have to take off the intake manifold to do this job or is there a method that does not require me to remove the intake manifold?

[AshwinSuppiah]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

That is for sure a fuel delivery issue. If there is a local Porsche club or a source of another 3.2 owner somewhere with a good running 3.2, a good test is to put your DME, (not just the relay) in their car. If it does not run, that is the problem for sure. Don't put their good DME in your car as that DME can be damaged if there is something messed up electronics. If you have access to the OEM chip, use that. After you get it running then try the Steve Wong chip for a better running engine.

Since you are in New Zealand, you have a lot less options for simple parts supply. The solid state DME relay is a good option to be sure that is correct.

Obviously the fuel pump running all the time is a major issue you need to address first as it should only run when the starter is running or the engine is running.

How old is the gasoline in the system? I have seen several people fighting a no start issue and come to find out it was old gas, plugged fuel filters, or pressure sensors.

You have a challenge that is not going to be fun to fix, but once you figure it out, please post you solution to this thread for the next guy to find.

I'm in Malaysia at the momement and this is where the car is. It usually is an easy trip to our porsche specialist whome is located 15km away across the border in Singapore, however due to the pandemic, borders are closed. The closest specialist other than that which is located across the border in singapore is in Kuala Lumpur which is 250+ miles/ 400 odd kilometers away, also due to the pandemic, cross state travel is not allowed. Hence why I've taken this task of getting the car running on my own.

I've got a new DME relay which will arrive early next week. Also definitely considering a solid state relay upgrade

[pmax]

Originally Posted by AshwinSuppiah

It might not be clear in the photo, but the fuel line has some crud in it. Will be ordering new fuel lines and now have to replace them.

I believe you found the root cause of the running problem ....

[AshwinSuppiah]

Originally Posted by pmax

I believe you found the root cause of the running problem ....

Yea mate, now I need help replacing these lines.

Need to know if I can do it without dropping the engine

[mo-mon]

Originally Posted by AshwinSuppiah

Yea mate, now I need help replacing these lines.

Need to know if I can do it without dropping the engine

No need to take out the intake manifold or drop the engine to remove the hard fuel lines. Different story putting them back in. Search here & on youtube on taking them out. I did this 2 years ago when I replaced my fuel lines with the flexible type.

Boxtergt/Len Cummings here on pelican makes top quality fuel lines.

[jlex]

That fuel line looks nasty. Remove the fuel float (sending unit) from the top of the fuel tank and look inside. I have the feeling that the inside of your tank is all corroded. Also, there is a screen (pre-filter) at the bottom of the tank at the drain plug. It may be totally plugged up. I wouldn't worry about replacing the fuel lines at this point, but would concentrate on flushing the fuel system out. At this point, the filter may have been contaminated with lots of rust. Hopefully, it didn't migrate into the injectors and plug them up too. Good Luck

[han]

Yes - engine fuel line CAN be replaced without engine removal. You will need to remove Air box, AFM, and the Heater Fan/hose assembly. Also helps to remove several breather hoses in back to give you more clear access.

Once you've removed everything above - then get ready to twist your back/body over the engine with a good set of stubby wrenches and a mirror.

I did this last year using the Griffiths set of replacement lines: https://griffiths.com/porsche/

Good luck.

[cabmandone]

In order for the fuel pump to be running all the time someone had to put a jumper in at the fuel pump fuse or you're getting constant power to the coils on the DME relay. I'd check for a jumper at the fuel pump fuse and then I'd pull the DME relay and check for voltage at the coil terminals. The fuel pump should not come on until the engine is cranking.

You mention draining the 4 year old fuel from the tank but I don't see where you mention changing the fuel filter that would have had 4 year old gas in it.

[GH85Carrera]

Those fuel lines for sure, look bad. That will be a pain to replace, and a bit expensive.

Good luck with the project.

[cmcfaul]

Dont know what's going on with the relay jerry rig. that looks highly suspect.

Chris

89 Carrera

[gomezoneill]

New fuel tank, new lines, new fuel distributor, new WUR, new accumulator, new fuel pump, new injectors etc...