If the engine still has the air injection tubing, that's the reason the left exchanger had to come off. They're in the way. Not an easy task with 30 yo frozen, rusted fasteners which often have to be cut off with a torch.

Ditto what John says. I just acquired an 87 Carrera and will confirm there are no quick & easy jobs when working on a 34 year old car because when you go in to fix one thing something else will fall apart in your hands as a result of age, corrosion & rust and it will always take 2-3 times longer than originally planned.

What’s in the $500 parts list ?

That’ll inform on the extent of the work done.

@Ivan Already verified, thanks. :) Looks good.

Forgot **Remove and install air injector tube assembly. $160

I agree with Ivan that it shouldn't take a professional with decades of experience 3 hours to install the tubes once the exchanger was off, even assuming it took him 5 hours to clean and remove it from a rust-free car.

Luca ..i wanted to see the installation..a lot of mechanic do not know the direction the tubes are supposed to face....that is the reason i`ve asked for you to take a picture...i am curious....

Ivan

to post picture here ..go to the bottom and click advance ..there you see a blue line to insert a picture...

>Parts including oil return tubes and new gaskets, plus a bunch of nickel and dime stuff: $508.03.

How does the nickel and dime stuff add up to $500 ?

OIL TUBE Seal repair
 

Maybe you missed my post on the repair method.In 40 years I probably did at least 50-60 cars.Time for a DIY cheap guy to try it.It never failed.In the earlier years the expanable tubes worked well.When they came out with the green viton seals the installation was not as easy.Ciao Fred

>**Remove oil from crankcase + replace oil return tubes + reinstall oil** $480.

Does removing oil from crankcase mean just removing the drain plug and draining some oil ?

The leak
 

The early cars had white seals and in the mid 70,s they went to red.In the 80,s they went to green viton.Ciao

Believe Matt and JW. Original air injection, rusty hardware, yea the guy was "pricey" but, if it were a "worst case scenario"!!!!. As for ProPosche, I think he's loosing it over there in Europe. 30min??? Best case scenario, on an engine stand, with no exhaust. Or maybe a 70's car, no air inj., and headers. Hey Pro, whatcha smokin? We generally charge $500 + parts. As for drain and refill crankcase, he's just being "BAR" accurate in his description.

@John Walker and Tractorboy; That makes sense, but the exchangers had been off the car before (w/ the older style red seal expandables installed), and there was no significant rust. I would say that this should have probably been among the easier removals, but what I'm getting is that this is not necessarily a straightforward job. Thanks for that.

@Pmax that's exactly what it means. I'll post the list of parts and misc charges.

@Fred. Did see it, thanks much. Wish I'd known about that method before. Would have definitely tried it.

Appreciate this discussion. I guess it's fair to conclude that while expensive/opportunistic, not totally absurd, and thats not nothing. Hope Ivan weighs in. How long should it take in your view to pop the tubes in once the exchanger is off?

Thats one reason I don't take my car in for service, i will do it myself and know exactly what was done.

Thats one reason I don't take my car in for service, i will do it myself and know exactly what was done. Sometimes i have nightmares!

I can hardly wait for part 2. :)

Marc B. sorry dude i do not smoke...and yes 30 min is the way i do it..yes on the hoist with the tubes ready to install-like or not....... that is your problem;-)500 bucks replacing 125 dollars in parts is a lot of money..
Once i get a hand on 930 with tubes to be changed i`ll gladly do a video;-) for ya....
Luca just take a picture from the bottom ,let`s say right side to see the direction the tubes are installed.
Flag....yes the Viton is the best material,it last long-very long..The best for an installation lubricant was the little tube of Bosch grease, but that is NLA..so the Sachs lube is the best..the tube will slide nicely in and out...practice before installing it so it is smooth after it is very simple as i said if you know where to put your hands and have the right tools for it.

Ivan

Luca i have mentioned ..if the exchanger is off it takes 5 minutes to put them in ok 10 minutes for both sides

This!
A few "errors" from the mechanic's side, which may not be in an easy to swallow format...

1. Implausible- and possibly unnecessary time allocation to the tasks in his description- (this is written up after the job is complete to quantify the approximate time, sometimes with little effort)

Realistically, the car took an 8-10 hour day to complete, which means it was fighting every step of the way. How many minutes it took to drain the crankcase and squeeze a clamp is irrelevant, and just throws the customer in many cases- if anything, it shows an attempt at transparency. At the end of the day, your labour cost for this repair, which turned out to be more complex than anticipated, was $1600- which is quite reasonable in many cases. I cannot tell you whether or not it was done with care and correctly. Ultimately that is what determines if you got your money's worth.

2. He did not make it clear enough to you that ***** on old cars can go south real quick, and with it so will your bill. Likely, there was some lack of communication along the way, where he may have assumed that it was a blank cheque repair and did whatever he deemed necessary to finish the job.
A few broken studs can be a difference between a 1hr job and a whole day. At $2.60 a minute, it adds up exponentially. A good practice for that would be to stop at the quoted labour mark and contact you for further approval, and the recommended next steps. Your final labour would be the same...or more- ironically due to him having to stop what he was doing and to get you up to date....but would you feel better about that? What about a bill that had $1200 in labour and $900 in parts, or one that has $2000 in labour "discounted" X% down to $1600?
Many ways to try and soften the blow, with the identical end result, which is likely what you will encounter at the shops that you may perceive as a good deal.
Find a good, honest mechanic and hold on to him...if you have trust in him and the quality of his work, you won't ever feel the need to ask for an opinion on a forum.

3. Plain and simple error in quoting the job without having a good look at the car first or not having done this particular job and have the worst case scenario costs worked out.



Do yourself, as well as the mechanic a favour and find another workshop to take care of your car- hopefully one that will entertain suggested labour quotes from a forum full of weekend warriors. ;)

lelix, Good response!


Ivan, IF you do a video. make sure it's apples for apples. In other words, if you don't have a turbo, at least do a car with late heat exchangers, AND air injection Mr. 30min. And don't start the stop watch with the car in the air and drained. PROPER warranty time, in other words, start the clock when you get in the car to pull it on the lift, and don't stop the watch until the oil level is properly set and the car has been test driven. THAT is a complete job. not just changing the tubes on the easiest model available, and having it already on the lift stripped.
Sorry if I sound upset, but the experienced mechanics in the world can make stuff sound sooo easy. I'm currently in discussion with a man who got involved in cam chains and cam timing, some shmuck on this website told him how "easy" it was. Poor guy.

And this line, "500 bucks replacing 125 dollars in parts is a lot of money.."? How much does it cost to replace a $8.59 o-ring, on the #8 bearing? Parts cost has NOTHING to do with installation cost.

And last, Ivan, stop fighting yourself and get some Molykote 111, you'll kick yourself for not finding it years ago.


Marc

Marc..i will gladly do the video for you--i will be awhile but i will come true for ya.......which will include draining the engine oil removing the tubes,also installing the new tube.MYL.111. i have for a long time still prefer the Sachs lube..
for the 8th bearing contact Henry Smith in the valley ,he has the stuff which will fix the leak;-)
As for the the schmuck who said it is easy to do cam timing ...only if you know how to do it otherwise you are asking for troubles;-)

don`t be upset, take it easy, we live only once;-))))

Ivan

Need to see the itemized parts list first.