Help! Mounting Harness what do I need?

[Jcon]

I'm getting the car ready for a DE in two weeks. I'm putting in a set of 5 point harnesses. The shoulderbelts will mount to a Brey Krause Harness Truss, so I'm set there. I was looking at hardware to mount the lap belts and I came across $8 eye bolts that should go into the current seat belt mounting holes. I also found a set of $64 x 2 = $128 a set Brey Krause units. (These are 2 sets inner and outer mounts)

Question - is there anny issue with the $8 eyebolts in the factory location. Is there any safety advantage to the $128 units.




$64 for these - I would need 4


Or These




$8 Bucks


Thanks

Jeff C

[FlaCarrera]

Just sent you a PM...you can get by for MUCH less $ with approved connections. I'm going through the same project for upcoming DE at Sebring. Maybe to late, but going with a harness guide bar and attaching harness ends to stock seat belt points seems much less costly to me and is approved.
Ted in SoFla
86 Carrera Blk/Blk

[ChrisBennet]

For the outboard belts: I just use a longer bolt and attach the stock seatbelt and the harness to it. (I leave my lap belts in the car all the time.) It is not ideal because the bolt can come undone (no shoulder).
For the inboard bolts: on cars that mount the seatbelt receiver to the floor (like your '81), you may be able to do the same thing (longer bolt). The BK thing is necessary for the later cars (like the '86) that have the seat belts receiver mounted to the seat.
-Chris

[Jcon]

Thanks

I already own the the BK Truss. I got a great deal from a pelicanite and couldn't pass it up.

For the eyebolts what size for an 81 SC...some I've seen are 7/16 and the ones from your PM are 5/8. Anyone know the right size. I'll try and look it up in my Bentley if it's in there.


Thanks

Jeff C

[Jcon]

OK

Nothing in the Bentley. Anyone know the bolt size?


Thanks

Jeff C

[ChrisBennet]

I always thought they were 7/16-20 and that what I've used but someone told me the other day that they were some metric size. 7/16-20 does fit perfectly though.
-Chris

[Wil Ferch]

All cars , Euro or USA...should be using 7/16-20.....very close to 11mm but NOT 11 mm....terrible cross thread can result after 4 turns.

Like Chris said, use eyebolts for outboard mounts, but the BK piggy back units are nice for the inboard since eyebolts there would interfere with the heater console. I have a longish write up in the Tech section of Rennlist on dual purpose harness set ups.
---Wil Ferch

[North Coast Cab]

FlaCarrera,
Can you send me the PM? I'd like to get the set-up as well.

JG

[FlaCarrera]

Eye Bolts are indeed 7/16-20 on my '86 and proabably for most other years. I am going with G-Force 5 Pt. H harnesses all attached to existing seat belt points (eye bolts replacing stock bolts) except submarine strap which will be a floor pan thru-bolt with 4" X 4" backup plate.

Shoulder belts will run over the top of a Brey-Krause stainless steel harnees guide bar (Targa model) which is removable at any time. I am going with clip on ends on the harness end, also to remove them for everyday driving. Shoulder belt ends will attached at back seat lap belt points.

Haven't done the install yet but think a stopper pin to prevent seats from getting moved too far forward will be needed, otherwise inboard eye bolts will hit the console. Someday may use more floor mounts for lap belt ends...slightly better angle....ehh, maybe this time.

Other tips from a 30 year local PCA/SCCA instructor/club racer...use a pilot hole before drilling 1/2" hole for sub strap anchor. Primer it. Wrap a rubber band around fire extinguisher handle to prevent annoying rattle. I'm mounting fire extinguisher to guide bar w/double mounts.

I am also taking out all the back seat cushions to partailly offset the added weight of the guide bar. Black carpet will be fitted where rear seat cushions once were.
Ted in SoFla
86 Carrera Targa
PS..Just read Wil's post above re inboard attachments...thank you!

[Wil Ferch]

Here's an excerpt of my Rennlist Tech Article:


....let me now just summarize for our new listers:
-- when using 5 point belts and factory belts on a dual purpose car, you are well
advised to use the *eyebolt and clip* style mounts at most points. Notably for the
lap-belts ( using the factory lower sill mount points...but NOT on the inboard
side..more later), and at the back seat lap belt points ( used for front-seat shoulder
harnesses connection points.)If shoulder harnesses are mounted this way, use the
long shoulder harnesses ( ~ 75" long) vs the short versions ( ~ 45" long), and drape
them over a proper harness bar. The shorter versions mount to a cross-bar. Don't
mount these to a harness bar directly unless specifically designed for this purpose,
like the Brey Krause "truss", or unless mounted to a strong cage or roll bar piece.
-- Using eyebolts for the inboard lap belts often causes interference with the center
console / heater controls. At this location, use the Brey-Krause R-9001 piggy-back
clip receptacle. Works nice on top of the factory receptacle. When it's not in use, it
can be swung 180 degrees back on the floor and out of the way. Certain cars ( 84-89
Carrera's ) need a supplemental bolt kit that I helped BK develop ( R-9002).
-- Front anti submarine strap: I was successful in removing the front plastic trim
piece on my factory seats, gaining access to hardware underneath from the front.
There is a large inverted "C" cross member as part of the seat bottom, that mounts
the electric seat motors. You can "loop" a narrow sub-strap around the hefty "C"
section, and use it for 5th belt duties. For street driving, leave it under the seat or
bring it forward under your floor mat. I've been told this works only through 85 ( or
so) cars..I know of one person with an 87 where the underside of the seat was much
different than my 85, and the "C" section looked much weaker. Look and check first.
When you buy eye-bolts, recognize that these are not metric, but universally used (
for seat belts) 7/16"-20 pitch fine thread.... not typically found in hardware stores,
and easily confused with 11 mm, and will cause a *terrible* cross thread after 4
turns , if the wrong piece is used. Normal length provided by OG Racing and others
is 1.5 " long...and this can be too long for the rear seat outboard locations...produces
a nice sheet metal dimple inside the wheel well, *right* behind the oil lines that run
in the Right-Rear wheel well ( ! ). Use 1" long bolts at this location , and maybe
even on the inboard side...don't want to puncture the differential case !.... Also, for a
cleaner installation, be sure to re-use the small washers that embed inside the factory
clips, for example, at the rear selt belt lap points and the front seat / outside lap points near the sill. This allows the factory belts to "rotate" in their mounts, as
intended, instead of being locked in-place by the eye-bolts that you are now using.
I find that with this set-up , I can either remove the track belts easily for street use, or
store them quickly out of the way while remaining attached. No extra bolt holes had
to be drilled in the car either, so no tell-tales remain if they should be removed later.
Regards,
Wil Ferch - 85 Carrera

[Jcon]

Thanks guys. I just got my eye-bolts today from OG Racing. ( I couldn't find them on Pelican..but did receive my Washer pump and new emblem from them today.) Anyway they went in easy both inboard and outboard in the front of my SC. I'll be using a BK Truss for rear mount so I can't comment on that. I will look under the seat to see if us SC owners have that option.


Jeff c

[DANNOV]

Wil Ferch
I read your comments regarding the Brey Krause R9001 inboard seat belt mounts. You mention that the R9002 kit is needed for a 1985 911.
I just installed the R9001 on my 1985 911. I noticed the mention of the R9002 kit in the instructions but it didn't seem to apply to my 911. The instructions are also for the 944 and I had a bit of trouble determining what applied to the 911 and what to the 944. I bought the BK 9001 from OG Racing and on their website they mention the need for a supplemental kit but it was for the 1985-89 944, not the 911. Are they in error?
Just what does the 9002 kit do and why is it necessary? What are the safety considerations if I just use the 9001 that I installed.

[Wil Ferch]

As I recall, it's been some time...
the 9002 solves a prickly problem of the inboard bolt head of 9001 still hitting or interfering with the center heater console. If you don't have the console, or if the driver's seat is mounted on its original rails with all the bolt slop taken up toward the outboard side, then you might get away with 9001 only for the 85 Carrera.
Since memory is beginning to fail me ( but I think it's still correct), you may want to talk to "Bill" at Brey Krause who kindly collaborated with me on the development of 9002.

---Wil Ferch