CA smog on old 911's

[Jd21476]

I just inherited my Dad's 1983 911 that has been upgraded to a 3.4 and I am concerned about CA smog compliance. I plan on keeping the car but I know CA smog can be tough on older cars. This car came from out of State where it did not need to meet CA smog compliance. Any words of advice?

[Trackrash]

Basically, according to the letter of the law, a newer motor can be installed as long as all the new motor's smog equipment is functioning.

If I was you, I would go to Black Forest and ask to talk to Mark. He seems to know all the ins and outs.

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by Jd21476

I just inherited my Dad's 1983 911 that has been upgraded to a 3.4 and I am concerned about CA smog compliance. I plan on keeping the car but I know CA smog can be tough on older cars. This car came from out of State where it did not need to meet CA smog compliance. Any words of advice?

Is the 3.4 based on a 3.2? Does it have Motronic still? if so, you just need to comply with the emissions requirement of the year of the engine. CA has a provision for that.

[Jd21476]

I dont know much about it currently. It is at the shop right now getting looked over but I am concerned about the smog stuff.

[darrin]

since my 3.2 to 3.4 conversion needs to pass Colorado's emission requirements, it runs on a stock motronic system and simply uses a remapped chip to control its new AFR requirements, so definitely doable -- good to hear yours is at a shop now -- the shop should be able to determine how to get it to a condition/state where it can pass visual and smog tests.

Keep us appraised

[Flynt]

Only way to really know is give it a run and see. So long as it has it's cat, o2 sensor, and charcoal canister* you should be fine.
* - The guy who did the smog on my 85 just asked if I had a charcoal canister as it's in a tough spot to see.

If you're not fine, post results here or search "smog". Pretty much any issue you might have has been covered. Motronic injection makes smog troubleshooting pretty easy.

[spyerx]

highly likely the smog tech won't know what hes looking at.
if it has a cat and is in a good state of tune, likely it will pass as is probably a later motor and it will run cleaner than what is required in 83.
Black Forest is a good suggestion.
use a smog shop that doesn't look too closely.... may just pop the back and run it on the dyno.
Only once in the last dozen years did I have a smog tech crawl all over one of my car... never went back there. Took too long.

If you want to do it technically... you'll need to have the car inspected by a BAR Smog Referee and get what is called an EO# ID label placed in the door jamb.

[Flynt]

Oops. Missed the 83 bit.

[1979-930]

Originally Posted by spyerx

highly likely the smog tech won't know what hes looking at.
if it has a cat and is in a good state of tune, likely it will pass as is probably a later motor and it will run cleaner than what is required in 83.
Black Forest is a good suggestion.
use a smog shop that doesn't look too closely.... may just pop the back and run it on the dyno.
Only once in the last dozen years did I have a smog tech crawl all over one of my car... never went back there. Took too long.

If you want to do it technically... you'll need to have the car inspected by a BAR Smog Referee and get what is called an EO# ID label placed in the door jamb.

This. As long as you don't go to a Porsche shop They won't know and they don't check engine size or type of injection system. They usually have a diagram of the emissions system to compare to your car.
As long as all of the emissions parts are installed they will pass the visual portion of the test.
As long as the engine is running proper it will pass the tail pipe test.
I wouldn't go the BAR route unless forced to.

[VonHillbilly]

Like has been said above, I think the cat is going to be what you need to look out for.
Make sure it has one, because it likely doesn't by now. People are always removing them or at least disconnecting the ox sensor. If you have a cat & ox sensor, you'll probably be in good shape because most techs won't know to look for much beyond that.

[flyingjay]

Having the later model motor installed you will be required to go to a BAR referee for an inspection and have an emissions sticker put on the car that states the emissions requirements for that particular motor. The newer motor must have all proper emission equipment that it came with. Basically cat, o2 sensor and charcoal canister.

[famoroso]

He doesn't have a later motor installed, but rather his original 3.2 built as a 3.4...

What is this piece?

OP, ignore all the posts about later engine requirements and BAR referees.

[darrin]

Originally Posted by famoroso

He doesn't have a later motor installed, but rather his original 3.2 built as a 3.4...

What is this piece?

OP, ignore all the posts about later engine requirements and BAR referees.

Famoroso - OP indicates above that the car's an '83 -- carreras/3.2s didn't come out until the 1984 model year -- hence the comments about a later engine, etc. -- fingers crossed that the car's MY '84 but built in '83

[chrismorse]

IIRC, an inter family transfer does NOT require a smog cirt.
My sister recently passed and I heard no smog was required, when my nephew re registered the 2001 Toyota, ditto, when my dad passed and he left the 74 to me, now, if they would bump the exemption from 75 to 77.......

I have heard of some modified, (cams & high compression) engines having difficulty getting a clean reading - hopefully the o2 sensor and cat will get it passed.

Does San Diego require bi-annual smog cirt to register??

[Trackrash]

Originally Posted by chrismorse

Does San Diego require bi-annual smog cirt to register??

I can't wait to move to Humbolt county so I won't have to have my cars smog checked every two years.

Yes all of San Diego needs the biannual checks.

Bringing in the car from out of state may complicate matters. When an where was the car last registered?

Again, there is a RUMOR that Mark at Black Forest has the "knowledge" to get cars smog certified.

[monkeyodeath]

Here's what you need to pass.

Visual:
- Intake can't be or look modified
- No disconnected vacuum lines or bungs or electrical stuff
- Exhaust needs to look fairly stock
- Cat needs to be either stock or a 50-state approved aftermarket model

Emissions:
- Has to pass at 15 and 25 MPH with stock-ish CO and NoX levels coming from the tailpipe.

The engine modifications, as long as they aren't visible to a smog tech, shouldn't matter. Just don't say anything about it -- CA smog guys get tested with ringers all the time and they can lose their business if they don't follow the rules.

If your engine runs rich or hot, you're likely to fail. If you've got an exhaust leak, you're likely to fail. If you're burning a ton of oil, you're going to fail. If your chip has some kind of wild tune, you might fail.

Try to bring the car in while it's plenty warmed up, but not blazing hot.

Find a smog tech who offers free retests and has good reviews. If you fail the first time, the numbers you get will be really helpful in figuring out whatever is wrong.

The only times I've had major smog issues are when the car itself has issues -- like overheating, running rich, or a cat that's been burned out by running rich.

Would avoid the BAR route for now, lots of work. Find a good smog tech on Yelp.

Would also avoid one of the illegal shops if at all possible. It's nice to just pay a bunch of money and be done, but those guys put honest shops out of business and force the state to get more and more uptight about smog testing criteria. Plus if they're caught, your car will be marked and you'll have to a stricter smog-test place the next time around.

[Avanti]

Originally Posted by spyerx

highly likely the smog tech won't know what hes looking at.
if it has a cat and is in a good state of tune, likely it will pass as is probably a later motor and it will run cleaner than what is required in 83.
Black Forest is a good suggestion.
use a smog shop that doesn't look too closely.... may just pop the back and run it on the dyno.
Only once in the last dozen years did I have a smog tech crawl all over one of my car... never went back there. Took too long.

If you want to do it technically... you'll need to have the car inspected by a BAR Smog Referee and get what is called an EO# ID label placed in the door jamb.

What Spyerx says above is probably the most practical approach and opinion. Just "getting it smogged" would give you time to drive the car and sort accordingly. You say you will keep the car but I said that about 50 cars I have owned. You fall in love and then, well, you know, things change. You can sell it out of the state of CA to person in a state that does not require smog.

A few other things to mention based on other posts and what I remember from being a smog tech.

Within family title transfer does not require a smog check BUT this car came from out of state you say, so its what is called an "initial" inspection. It needs a smog for your initial CA registration and will again every two years.

If the EVAP (charcoal) canister in not visible or easily accessible, it must be tested as N/A. If a guy tries insistently to find it or check it, get out of there. Best to tell the guy it where it is and it needs to not be tested. EVAP system failures are the most common emission failure on most cars and our cars with old hoses often can't hold the meger 1 psi of nitrogen pressure done in the test.

Technically, yes your car should go to the BAR and get the engine swap certified but that would happen AFTER your cars fails the test by a smog station and then that shop "directs" you to the "Referee" for another inspection and instructions on what your car will need to comply... no they don't where a striped shirt . If this happens, and you try to transfer title, the DMV will give you incomplete registration and title transfer until it passes smog. (but they will collect fees)

If you have to install or replace the CAT, be sure to install one that is CARB Compliant and the CARB compliance label/plate will be easy for the tech to see. If they can't, they may send you to the Referee. The CA BAR is BIG on CAT enforcement.

If you want to know what your limits or Cut Points are for emissions here is the CA BAR link.
https://www.bar.ca.gov/pubwebquery/cutpoints/showmake.aspx

[Rodsrsr]

Originally Posted by chrismorse

IIRC, an inter family transfer does NOT require a smog cirt.
My sister recently passed and I heard no smog was required, when my nephew re registered the 2001 Toyota, ditto, when my dad passed and he left the 74 to me, now, if they would bump the exemption from 75 to 77.......

I have heard of some modified, (cams & high compression) engines having difficulty getting a clean reading - hopefully the o2 sensor and cat will get it passed.

Does San Diego require bi-annual smog cirt to register??

This^^^from a direct family member to another, no smog needed in Cal to transfer, however going forward he will need the bi-annual inspection. Having said that, if the cars due for its bi-annual smog this year anyway he will need it.

EDIT.... my bad, I didnt realize the car was coming in from out of state. All bets are off. Smog is needed.

[smadsen]

A good, operational cat is mandatory. The 35 y/o OEM doesn't owe you anything & past 150,000 miles is kind of iffy. The replacement from our host is under $500. If someone before you had done the switcho/change with the motor, then who knows what you're dealing with.

So a 49 state car, with a motor of undisclosed linage, coming into the People's Republic of California. Hummmm.

Find a shop with the appropriate sniffer, do a complete tune-up, stand on one foot, face east, rub tummy & head & be prepared to replace the cat.

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by darrin

Famoroso - OP indicates above that the car's an '83 -- carreras/3.2s didn't come out until the 1984 model year -- hence the comments about a later engine, etc. -- fingers crossed that the car's MY '84 but built in '83

Crap. My apologies. I had assumed it was an '84> 3.2. My bad. I'll go self isolate now.