Top EndRebuild

[HarryD]

Hello All,

I am planning a top end rebuild to replace my valve guides. Before I tear down the engine, I am planning on getting the following:

Gasket kit
Replacement rings
Oil return tubes
CV Joint Gaskets
Timing Chains
Chain Ramps
(my machine shop will supply the parts to renew the heads. I expect to get hit for guides, springs and a few valves)
Sealants and lubricants

After I get the heads off, I will look at and replace as needed:
Timing gears
Clutch
Oil cooler
Tensioners

I am looking at a "plain vanilla" rebuild to stock and do not want spend any "while I am in there" kind of money for unnecessary upgrades.

Are there any other items I need to order in the first round? Any thing else I should plan to look for once the heads are off?

TIA

[Wayne 962]

I would suggest that you read through this: http://www.101projects.com/rebuild.htm - it will answer about 99.9% of your questions.

Also, take a walk through the Wizard:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/wizards/parts_wizard.cgi?wizard_root=911_engine_rebuild

Whoops, I see you already have!

Tear down the top end and inspect everything closely - then make your decision to replace or not...

-Wayne

[APKhaos]

Harry,
Understand the need to avoid temptation! That said, a set of rod bearings at $85 might be a wise investment. Think about flywheel and pulley oil seals, int shaft O ring, and all the usual top of engine seals that are famous for failing - oil temp sender, thermostat cover, etc.

You will love this project!

[kstylianos]

Harry,

Buy just the Top End gasket kit. It will contain all the gaskets and seals (including oil cooler seals) you'll need for a top end rebuild. I don't know if Pelican supplys the the top end kit or not. I paid $90 for the kit.

If you are just doing the heads, you wont need to remove the P/C's, so rings may not be necessary. If you removing the P/C's, then might as well replace the rod bearing and upgrade the rod bolts (since they cannot be used again). Also, send the P/C's, rods, wrist pins, rocker shafts, rockers, etc to the machine shop w/ the heads so they can be measured/cleaned/refreshed if needed. Cheap insurance. May want to upgrade to the newer cam tower restrictor which will create greater lower end oil pressure ($5/piece, you'll need 2).

Dont forget necessary lubricants, loctite, gloves, cleaning wipes, etc. Check Waynes engine rebuild wizard for specifics.

Tools:
Cam sprocket holder, dial indicator and z-block. Flywheel bolt tool if you are digging into the clutch. Chain tension tool can be fabricated.

Also, refresh hardware as needed, Youll see what needs replacing when you start didding in. My head stud bolts needed replacing and the washers underneath as well. Keep a good list of items when you start disassembly.

Thats all i can think of right now......

[88911coupe]

I assume the rod bearings can be replaced without breaking open the case...correct? I am contemplating the same job and also being unemployed, I am looking to do all that's needed but not going overboard on the "whileyerinthere" jobs. $85 on rod bearings seems like a no brainer though, along with all the seals you can reach with the engine out of the car.

[kstylianos]

Correct. The rod bearing can be replaced w/o cracking the case. Be careful when you remove the rod nuts as your working space is very limited. Its easy to drop a nut or bearing half into the bottom of the case. A magnet on a stick is good to have.

[APKhaos]

Harry,
Understand the need to avoid temptation! That said, a set of rod bearings at $85 might be a wise investment. Think about flywheel and pulley oil seals, int shaft O ring, and all the usual top of engine seals that are famous for failing - oil temp sender, thermostat cover, etc.

You will love this project!

[jhugh]

Hmm, if you're going to pull the rods apart in order to install new bearings, you probably shouldn't reuse (retorque) the old rod bolts, which are famous for failing.

If you do dig into the rod bearings, get new rod bolts too. The ARP racing bolts are a worthwhile upgrade - major piece of mind there.

Also, if I were you I'd have everything in the valve train replaced. But then again, I'm definitely a while-I'm-in-there improvements kinda guy. The internal improvements I made (C2 cams, racing springs, porting and rod bolts) made a HUGE and very satisfying difference in the way the car drives.

[J P Stein]

Find some poor dumb slob with all the tools and a well lit shop and move in for a month......

[HarryD]

Originally posted by J P Stein
Find some poor dumb slob with all the tools and a well lit shop and move in for a month......

Got anyone in mind? I thought about this one fellow but he is sort of slimy.

I was hoping more like 2 weeks, but those machine shops are so sloooooow!

[HarryD]

Originally posted by kstylianos
Harry,

Buy just the Top End gasket kit. It will contain all the gaskets and seals (including oil cooler seals) you'll need for a top end rebuild. I don't know if Pelican supplys the the top end kit or not. I paid $90 for the kit.

If you are just doing the heads, you wont need to remove the P/C's, so rings may not be necessary. If you removing the P/C's, then might as well replace the rod bearing and upgrade the rod bolts (since they cannot be used again). Also, send the P/C's, rods, wrist pins, rocker shafts, rockers, etc to the machine shop w/ the heads so they can be measured/cleaned/refreshed if needed. Cheap insurance. May want to upgrade to the newer cam tower restrictor which will create greater lower end oil pressure ($5/piece, you'll need 2).

Dont forget necessary lubricants, loctite, gloves, cleaning wipes, etc. Check Waynes engine rebuild wizard for specifics.

Tools:
Cam sprocket holder, dial indicator and z-block. Flywheel bolt tool if you are digging into the clutch. Chain tension tool can be fabricated.

Also, refresh hardware as needed, Youll see what needs replacing when you start didding in. My head stud bolts needed replacing and the washers underneath as well. Keep a good list of items when you start disassembly.

Thats all i can think of right now......

I have not seen a "top end kit" yet. Just a complete gasket kit. The one at Pelican is $215. Where do you find this smaller set?

for the rings, I figure I can "cheat" and pull the jugs, replace the rings and reinsert the jugs. This way I avoid the whole rod bearing/bolt issue.

Miscellaneous tuff.. yeah I know. I got some or I'll pick it up as needed.

Tools..several fellows have offered to share so I think I am ok.

Hardware etc, I figure I'll replace as I discover issues there.

Thanks for the advice!

[HarryD]

Originally posted by jhugh
Hmm, if you're going to pull the rods apart in order to install new bearings, you probably shouldn't reuse (retorque) the old rod bolts, which are famous for failing.

If you do dig into the rod bearings, get new rod bolts too. The ARP racing bolts are a worthwhile upgrade - major piece of mind there.

Also, if I were you I'd have everything in the valve train replaced. But then again, I'm definitely a while-I'm-in-there improvements kinda guy. The internal improvements I made (C2 cams, racing springs, porting and rod bolts) made a HUGE and very satisfying difference in the way the car drives.

Yeah, thers some good ideas here but I am planning on the "poor boy" route for now.

[HarryD]

Originally posted by APKhaos
Harry,
Understand the need to avoid temptation! That said, a set of rod bearings at $85 might be a wise investment. Think about flywheel and pulley oil seals, int shaft O ring, and all the usual top of engine seals that are famous for failing - oil temp sender, thermostat cover, etc.

You will love this project!

Yep, I'll be looking at those as well.

Thanks

[HarryD]

Question,

For the timing chains, what is the benefit of using the chain sprocket wheel spacers to space the original chain wheel supports (low cost option) vs. using the late model chain wheel supports which have this spacing built into them (more $$, later technology).

[HarryD]

Originally posted by J P Stein
Find some poor dumb slob with all the tools and a well lit shop and move in for a month......

Don't know any fellows like that but I do know some pretty cool guys that seem to know alot more than me.

[kstylianos]

Harry,

Talk to Walt at Competition Engineering. He's the one who put together the gasket set for me. www.competitioneng.com

[HarryD]

Originally posted by kstylianos
Harry,

Talk to Walt at Competition Engineering. He's the one who put together the gasket set for me. www.competitioneng.com

Thanks.. I'll check him out.

[North Coast Cab]

HarryD,
Interesting thread for the do-it-yourself p-car mechanic. I'm curious, what do you think this will all cost you?

JG

[HarryD]

Originally posted by North Coast Cab
HarryD,
Interesting thread for the do-it-yourself p-car mechanic. I'm curious, what do you think this will all cost you?

JG

More than I want it to, but less than if I send the job to my wrench.

I am trading some of my time for cost savings. I figure both he and I will pay about the same for parts so I just save the labor.

[rcwaldo]

think about the rear main seal. the downside is you should replace the flywheel bolts as well. what about head studs?

If you need any long distance help or reference pics, I will help you out. Just did a complete 2.7 rebuild last year.

Chris