Need help with Serial Number under Knee Pad

[bavaria911]

Team,
I just finished up re-doing some interior for the 1970 911T, just not the dash board pad for now. Pic's will follow. When I removed the knee pads to fix the dash plate I found a serial number that did not match the vehicle VIN #. First question:
1. Should they match the VIN (kind of a back-up location for fraud) ?
2. The number is 1005137. What does that tell me ?
Any help please.
Vr,
Scott

[javadog]

1. No.
2. Not much.

The number on the dash is a production (sequence) number. Porsche can cross reference it to a VIN, but nobody else can.

JR

[bavaria911]

With new information on the numbers - being called "production numbers", I found the following on the early 911 Reg.

Pasted:

In addition to this, the number stamped into the dash behind the knee pad became a chassis “build” number, or “production” number. It may or may not match the actual VIN number, in my case it did not, but you may find cars where it does. There may also be other stamped production numbers, like the one I found next to the tunnel inspection port. These may or may not match the number stamped behind the knee pad, in my case it did not.

I have only been able to decode the first 3 digits of these 7-digit build/production numbers. Using my production number as an example, this is what I’ve found:

Production number: 1297xxx
1. First digit represents whether the body is a replacement or standard production – 0 designates a replacement body, 1 designates a production body (not sure what this means exactly)
2. Second digit is the body type and where it was built – 0 designates a Stuttgart coupe, 1 designates a Stuttgart targa, 2 designates a Karmann coupe, 3 designates a Karmann 914/6
3. Third digit is the model year – in this case the 9 represents 1969, a 0 would represent 1970, a 1 for 1971, etc.

I haven’t been able to decode the fourth number, but that position could designate some other main chassis option. –I’m assuming that the next three digits are sequential tub numbers (serial number), but the gurus here should be able to confirm/deny that.

I also learned that if you are unsure if the VIN/chassis number and the build/production numbers are correct for your car, you can send them to Porsche and they will either confirm or deny that the numbers are from the same car. On top of that, I was also told that there is a “secret” 4-digit number stamped somewhere behind the ashtray that can be sent to Porsche as part of that confirmation process, but I have not verified that in any way and welcome any additional info in that regard.

---------
So my number supports that it is a 1970 coupe built in Stuttgart,

Vr,

[djpateman]

Production number: WXYZZZZ
1. First digit represents whether the body is a replacement or standard production – 0 designates a replacement body, 1 designates a production body. A production body is one used for a regular production car while a replacement body is a basic bare body used to reconstruct a badly damaged car, or in some cases was used to build a race car from scratch.
2. Second digit is the body type and where it was built – 0 designates a Stuttgart coupe, 1 designates a Stuttgart targa, 2 designates a Karmann coupe, 3 designates a Karmann 914/6. Note that there is no differentiation between 911 and 912, nor for sunroof or any other body variation such as the RS.
3. Third digit is the model year – in this case the 9 represents 1969, a 0 would represent 1970, a 1 for 1971, etc. In the case of the 914/6 in 1970 only, the year digit is missing on the body shell, but present on the dash (which is a bolt on part) and the body and dash numbers may be slightly different.
4. The last four digits are a sequential serial #

I'm not sure when it started, but I have seen metal tags with the production number buried in the sound deadener under the carpet in front of the drivers seat (LHD) in some SC's.

For a Karmann bodied car there should also be a Karmann body number. The early 912 had this number in the speaker recess on the top of the dash. Later 911 & 912 had this number on the tunnel under the access panel in front of the rear seats.

Most cars would have the VIN or production # (as stamped on the dash frame under the knee pad and below the radio opening) written in grease pencil on the left side of the dash.
Some cars have the name of the paint written in grease pencil on the right side of the dash.

I have not heard of a “secret” 4-digit number stamped behind the ashtray.

[bavaria911]

Someone ask me about my ser# behind the rt knee pad on the dash, so I have brought this back to life.
The explanation of the numbers should be helpful for those wanting to know.

Vr,
Scott

[Limey]

Hi
All, this thread is some years old now but relevant to my current situation. Much the the opening story I have a discrepancy between the VIN (trunk) number and the two numbers on the interior behind dash pad and rear floor vent. The car is currently being restored, and I’m left asking myself ‘do I have a cut & shut’ job or is there truth that there can be differences between the numbers?

Regards
Limey

[djpateman]

I can help if you can supply me with all of the relevant numbers you have found, and the VIN. I'll send you a PM.
Dave

[javadog]

Limey,

You don’t say what particular car you own but I’ll throw out a generalization. The number behind the dash pad is a production sequence number and really has nothing to do with the VIN.

[djpateman]

Generally true except that the model year and body type do have to match. Also, the higher the VIN, the higher the production #; in most cases the last 4 digits of the production # will be much higher than the last 4 digits of the VIN. This is true since (for example) there can be a T Targa, and an E Targa, and an S Targa all built from the pool of Targa body type production #'s.

[javadog]

Yes, true, but sometimes I think people simply expect the numbers to match and they don’t.

There’s actually a fair bit of information contained in the production sequence number, but that’s beyond the scope of this discussion.

[Fahren Cars]

Originally Posted by djpateman

I can help if you can supply me with all of the relevant numbers you have found, and the VIN. I'll send you a PM.
Dave

Dave, can you or your contact in Germany help me match the correct VIN and production number on my car? I'm willing to pay for the service if needed.

I have the correct and unmodified production number from under the dash for my '75 911S Targa but I have a VIN problem (it doesn't exactly match). I applied for a PPS from PCNA this week, and they've been very helpful by phone but they cannot release the PPS without additional info. They did find my car in their database based on the production number (yay!) but they cannot release the VIN and full PPS unless I can provide them with my version of the correct VIN. In fact, PCNA verbally verified serval unique options on my car, so I'm confident they have the right car in their database correctly. We matched the first 6 digits of the VIN so far, too.

I'm happy to share pics and numbers of what I have so far through a PM or email.

The VIN on my car is partially illegible and rusted. It may have been replaced or damaged. I called the TX-DMV, and they cannot determine the VIN based on the production number for cars not registered more than 10 years ago. They will give me a bonded title if I can provide the VIN number, so I'm good with that for now.

Appreciate any advice or help you can provide.

[Bill Douglas]

Jason, have you tried cleaning up the VIN number with acid, brass wire brush etc. Good plan to try to get the correct number from the Fatherland, but plan B may be trying with acid.

[javadog]

What are the first 6?

911511?
911521?
911531?

No guesses on any of the rest?

No paperwork of any kind, not even a service receipt, or any history with the car? Nothing on the left side A pillar or B pillar?

[bkreigsr]

Is this discussion about the numbers written in chalk on the metal portion of the dash under the padded knee pad ?
My '85 had a set of chalk numbers that did not match anything.
Bill K

[djpateman]

Bill, there are lumber crayon hand written numbers on the top of the dash frame between the windshield and the instruments. This should be the same as the production # stamped into the lower dash frame behind the kneepad and below the radio area. The number only has a vague relationship with the VIN; the year code is the same as is the body type.
An 85 may have a dogtag or two stamped with the production #. Sometimes found in the tar under the drivers carpet, or hanging somewhere in the nose of the car. They can be the object of an interesting hunt. Where did you see the chalk numbers?

[70SATMan]

Originally Posted by javadog

What are the first 6?

911511?
911521?
911531?

No guesses on any of the rest?

No paperwork of any kind, not even a service receipt, or any history with the car? Nothing on the left side A pillar or B pillar?

Forgot another possibility:

911541,,,,

So, missing the A pillar and trunk VIN tags and the stamped VIN is in a state of damage.. If Porsche will not give the VIN based on the production number then I'm not sure how one proceeds with TX DMV. Might want to cut bait and have a VIN assigned by TX. Importantly, the MODEL part of the VIN is pretty important and if Porsche has confirmed the options you know are on the car, then I don't know how upset I'd be on the VIN front if I could confirm the MODEL. If it's a Carrera Targa, then I'd probably care a bit more.

What are your engine/transmission serial numbers as well as the types? You can narrow it down some more but, you'll never be able to confirm without forensics of your rusted VIN stamp or your ability to beg Porsche for more details. Did you give them your drivetrain numbers with the production number, color/interior options with the production number? The more information they can cross reference, the more likely they'll consider giving you the VIN info.

[javadog]

It’s not my car, I was responding to the original poster. I ruled out the possibility of it being a Carrera from the pictures. Engine and gearbox numbers would help determine if it’s a US or ROW car but he hasn’t checked back in since he posted the thread, so who knows….

[Green W]

Hi Dave, can you please contact me. I have some questions but I can’t send you a PM

Rgds

[proporsche]

Originally Posted by djpateman

Bill, there are lumber crayon hand written numbers on the top of the dash frame between the windshield and the instruments. This should be the same as the production # stamped into the lower dash frame behind the kneepad and below the radio area. The number only has a vague relationship with the VIN; the year code is the same as is the body type.
An 85 may have a dogtag or two stamped with the production #. Sometimes found in the tar under the drivers carpet, or hanging somewhere in the nose of the car. They can be the object of an interesting hunt. Where did you see the chalk numbers?

here is mine 85 dog tag