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-   -   When Well Enough Can't Be Left Alone; Backdate, EFI/ITB, AC, and more! (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1106768-when-well-enough-cant-left-alone-backdate-efi-itb-ac-more.html)

rwest 10-21-2025 06:29 AM

Dang Julian,

I was shocked when I scrolled down the screen and was met by the duct tape shot. Glad you are okay and the car didn’t suffer too bad of a fate.

I still am unable to track down my lean running issues even after a ton of testing, so I will likely be doing an EFI change up this winter.

Best,
Rutager

Showdown 10-21-2025 06:50 AM

Darn Rutager, that's a bummer to hear after all that searching.

FWIW, even though I just changed my ECU and all of my wiring, I'm going to do it again this winter. I need a more capable ECU and I want to see if I can do an even nicer job this time. Plus I'll have time while the case is machined and parts arrive... Let me know if you want to brainstorm anythign.

rwest 10-21-2025 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Showdown (Post 12550760)
Darn Rutager, that's a bummer to hear after all that searching.

FWIW, even though I just changed my ECU and all of my wiring, I'm going to do it again this winter. I need a more capable ECU and I want to see if I can do an even nicer job this time. Plus I'll have time while the case is machined and parts arrive... Let me know if you want to brainstorm anythign.

Yes!

There are so many choices in ECUs and seemingly little information on which ones are the best.

My problem is somewhat intermittent and seems to be spark in nature, but can’t pin down the exact cause. Could be the MS-2 or the coil or? I decided to cut bait and do COPs and a new ECU instead of throwing more money guessing on what part is bad.

Ideally you find a local tuner and use the ECU that they are familiar with, but it doesn’t appear that I have any air cooled tuner in the MN metro area.

Rutager

TargaWoods 10-21-2025 02:43 PM

Julian,

The tub damage is what I was most worried about, thank god everything is straight there, and you skated by cheaper than what I had guessed, another win.

Let me know what you decide to go with for an ECU!

Showdown 11-03-2025 06:47 AM

No sooner than I had unpacked I got right to work; there's a lot to be done before spring and I'm not getting any younger.

First order of business after removing the damaged fender was to contact Hagerty and file a claim. Thus far, it's been pretty easy and I'm waiting on the response from the adjuster. Everyone at Hagerty has been really lovely and sympathetic and pulling for a fast resolution. We'll see how this plays out.

The next order was to drop the engine and begin tearing it down. I arrived at my shop at 6am and proceeded to drop the engine. It took a total of about 2 hours start to finish once the oil was drained. I spent a lot of time last winter ensuring that this was the result of all the wiring that I did. To remove the engine all that needs to be done is:

Unplug two electrical connectors
Unplug two vacuum lines
Disconnect one fuel line
Plus all the other regular Porsche stuff like shift linage, axles, etc...

I'm really proud of that extra work I put in as dropping the motor by myself for the first time was as easy as could be.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762180880.jpg

Once I had the motor on the stand I began taking this off, which I can assure you is a lot of fun and oh too easy. All told the entire engine was torn down in about 8 hours.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762180904.jpg

I didn't find any broken or damaged parts and the inside of the engine looked stellar- remember there are only 66k miles on this and it was never really driven hard. The past 5 years have been the most intense for this car for sure.

Head studs were pulled and none broke, cams pulled and sold, rockers pulled (they were machined last winter and still look stellar). The heads were filthy even after ultrasonic cleaning but the pistons had relatively little carbon build up.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762180930.jpg

The case and the heads were sent off to Henry Schmidt at Supertec for all the requisite case mods (shuffle pins, line bore, oil bypass mod, case savers, etc...) The heads will go to him too for twin plugging, porting, new valve guides, new springs and retainers and 5 angle grind; again, all the requisite modifications.

The fan and shroud are off to Shaun at Tru6 for cerakoting because why not at this point.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762180953.jpg

I spent the next few days running all the remaining parts that would fit, through the ultrasonic cleaner degreasing and de-crudding them. When I was done, everything looked pretty nice. This morning I made a quick Cheddar Curtain run to drop off the rest of the parts to a fellow for vapor honing and should have that done by this weekend. Those part will then be ceramic tumbled to close up the pores of the metal and give everything a really beautiful finish.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762180972.jpg

In the meantime, lots of boxes of goodies have been arriving; TXL wire, Deutsch connectors, rubber boots, etc... all the bits and bobbles for the wiring harnesses that I'm preparing to start working on in the next few weeks. The first time I wired up the car I thought I did a decent job. Last winter I tried to do a really good job and this time I'm aiming for motorsport level precision; something that looks and operates as if designed and fabricated by a professional. Suffice it to say, I'm very very excited.

I still have a few choices to make but I think this will be the final build:

Twin plugged heads with upgraded springs and titanium retainers
964 oil pump
DC40 cams (although the DC43 look tempting too- any feedback on the two would be much appreciated)
Mahle 10.3:1 pistons and cylinders
Carrillo rods
RHD EFI ITBs
2x knock sensors on 964 bridges
flex fuel sensor
SSIs (for now)
MS3Pro Evo+ ECU.
My Digital gauge

I'm hoping for a streetable and relatively well behaved car below 4k and a nasty little gremlin from 4k-7500

Any thoughts on the build would as always be welcome.

ToySnakePMC 11-03-2025 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Showdown (Post 12557875)
In the meantime, lots of boxes of goodies have been arriving; TXL wire, Deutsch connectors, rubber boots, etc... all the bits and bobbles for the wiring harnesses that I'm preparing to start working on in the next few weeks. The first time I wired up the car I thought I did a decent job. Last winter I tried to do a really good job and this time I'm aiming for motorsport level precision; something that looks and operates as if designed and fabricated by a professional. Suffice it to say, I'm very very excited.


This is going to be great. I, too, have recently learned a new skill with building my first stand-alone harness - and I look forward to improving "my game" on the next project car. Your attention to detail will make this latest version of your coupe a complete knock-out! I think you have a great plan ahead for the engine build - and I'm curious what those with ITB's suggest about the cam choice. I did a single EFI throttle body so my choice (John Dougherty's actually) is a more tame 993SS for the common plenum. Best of luck going forward - Always enjoy your build thread. Patrick

Showdown 11-03-2025 09:26 AM

The cams were suggested by Henry Schmidt who has more Porsche engine experience in his daily constitution that I'll every acquire. The ITBs come with unique advantages such as super crisp and responsive throttle which on a light and lower powered car make it really quick and disadvantages such as tuning for all the range of usage... but there are approaches and techniques that can be employed to make tuning easier and at this point I feel pretty comfortable within the software to know how to attack these issues.

So, I think it's less bout the ITBs and more about the tune- delivering what the cams want and when they want it; tailoring fuel and spark so that the cam can thrive and deliver what we expect of it.

But who knows, it's an adventure for sure!

Showdown 11-10-2025 07:20 AM

Though Hanukkah can fall before, during or after Christmas, this year it came way early on Friday in the form of some very large boxes from FedEx and UPS; thank you Hagerty.

After the car got close and intimate with another, a timid call was placed to Hagerty regarding the claims process which was met with nothing*but grace, understanding and urgency.* The agent was prompt and within*about 10 days, a transfer had been made that was way beyond what was expected.

I had some feelers for original Porsche fenders out there and the community was great but ultimately, all of the fenders on offer would have required a lot of rust repair, dent removal, and general tending to that felt like more work than I wanted. Yes the price was lower, but time vs. money...

So, with little waste, and much haste, work began in earnest on Saturday morning.* The first order of business was a dry-fit of the new parts which was, well, it was.* It's been long understood that replacement*panels are starting points at best and we should be lucky to have them at all, and this was no exception.*

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762786931.jpg

I suspect that the driver's door may have fallen afoul at some point in the preceding*40+ years as the new fender left a lot to be desired.* Upwards of 1/2" to be specific.* The panel gap between the trailing edge of the fender and the leading edge of the door was epic and needed remedying as did the cowl at the windshield.**

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762786966.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762787150.jpg

The answer of course would be to fabricate a metal filler piece and weld it in.* This of course assumes several things: 1.) one has access to a full metal shop to cut and form the filler piece, 2.) one has metal to fabricate said piece from.* Having neither 1 nor 2 improvisation was necessary.

To solve this quandary, welding wire at 1/8", 3/16", and 1/16" was tacked to the edge of the fender and welded into place.* The process began with the TIG but quickly shifted to MiG as pure argon ran out- d'oh!* Doing it with the MiG was not particularly difficult, it just wasn't nearly as easy, fast and clean as with the TIG... oh well. I debated just stopping and waiting but that would mean a 2 week delay until I had another full day to work as I have my kids alternating weeks and they're the priority.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762787071.jpg

Once the edges had been built up, they were Dychem*coated and scribed to something that would at least*approximate acceptable.* Then it was off to grinderville to slowly remove the mass of new metal that had been painstakingly added.* Add and then remove... this is the mantra of bodywork... Learn it, love it.

This was a lot of back and forth, trimming, fitting, scribing, trimming, etc... but eventually a panel gap that was acceptable was achieved.* Perhaps more than the desired 3mm, but it matches the rest of the car and that's the goal here. The panel gaps on this car are not perfect, never have been and that's fine with me. I'm confident that if I had a car down to bare metal I could achieve a level of perfection that would be stellar, but that's not this car... And given the prices of tubs... it may never be an option. Too bad as I'd love to start a longer term ground-up project, sparing no expense and no compromises just to see what I can do.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762787089.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762787120.jpg

The next step was to weld in the fuel filler door using the same method.**No photos of that one as I was just in the zone and focused on work.

With all the welding complete, it was time for filler.* I have no shame about filler and when repairing an old car it's kind of necessary*lest one is taking the car to bare metal...*

Fiberglass filler first to provide a bit of structure and then after that was sanded down, lightweight filler atop.* It was at this point that I decided to call it a day- it was nearly 3pm and work had begun at 6am.* I certainly could have gone further and gotten the panel ready for paint but I figured spending some time with the girlfriend was a wiser investment of time.**

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762787179.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762787179.jpg

I did however manage to get the new bumper fitted and designed and began fabricating mounting brackets out of aluminum stock.* Because this bumper has no cutouts in the lower valiance like the old one, I will have to consider some method of forcing air to the oil cooler in the passenger fender well.*

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762787221.jpg

The options are:*
1.) drill holes/cut an opening in the bumper and fit it with mesh, etc... very hotrod and I suppose effective
2.) 3D print an air scoop to sit under the bottom edge of the bumper. Very clean and probably more effective but I worry about it being too low
3.) ?

In addition, more bits and baubles*have been trickling in and I'm ready to start building the wiring harnesses.* I mentioned that this time I'm going for TE Connectivity-specified race spec, or something*close to it.* *I've got a month or two before all the engine parts are done with machining and ready to assemble so that should keep me busy...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762787244.jpg

Showdown 11-17-2025 07:23 AM

My schedule this time round is a bit different than when I first embarked upon this project. Now, I have my kids every other week (with a Wednesday night swap) so that means I really only get one full day every two weeks as opposed to one day every week to thrash on the car. Eek.

Last week very little work got done but much preparatory work was checked off the seemingly ever growing list. More bits and baubles were ordered- mostly for the electrical side of the project- I really want to leave no stone unturned when it comes to making the harnesses.

In addition, a lot of back and forth about cams was had. I was planning on the DC40, then John Dougherty recommended the DC43x-102, then he suggested DC32-25-106, etc... What I'm trying to achieve is a streetable and easily daily driven car that can get rowdy on rallies. So, civilized to 3500 or so and then lots of powah from 3500 up till 7000 or so. I don't need the peak power to be at 7500 because this isn't a track car and I'm not seeing that number regularly on rallies. From my past experience most of time is spent between 3000-6500 anyway so that's where the power should be. In addition, given that it's a 2.7, having a bit of extra torque lower will help.

As always, thoughts welcome.

---

Enough with the opining, on to what I did do.

I made bumper mounting brackets. Big deal, right... this took forever. Simple things like this are a bear to make and as you can see, they are not symmetrical... because the pickup points on the fiberglass bumper are not symmetrical. Yay. I've worked with 5 fiberglass bumpers form 4 different manufacturers and EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. is just a few degrees away from a hot seamy pile of dicks. And that's why I choose the cheapest ones... because they all need a ton of work so why pay more than is necessary... also; rally car, not show car.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763392613.jpg

This weekend I had to run up to the cheddar curtain to pick up some parts that I had vapor blasted and good lord are they pretty. These will received one more treatment, but more on that later. If you're in need and don't mind a drive to Mukwagono, Wi. let me know and I'll pass on the contact info.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763392657.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763392657.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763392657.jpg

And finally, this morning before work I started wiring the ECU. Lots of spreadsheets and meticulous planning doesn't reveal itself just yet but I can assure you, it will.

I 3D printed some Ampseal connector boots to keep the wires tidy, pardon the tape; it's load bearing. All of this will be concentric twisted, wrapped with kevlar thread and housed in fire resistant sheathing. Fun stuff.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763392837.jpg

This week should be a big one as I want to get the bumper and fender into high build primer and ready for paint this weekend and I need to pull the old hardess and ECU so I can start measuring for the new stuff.

Onward!

Gabe. 11-17-2025 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Showdown (Post 12564462)
And finally, this morning before work I started wiring the ECU. Lots of spreadsheets and meticulous planning doesn't reveal itself just yet but I can assure you, it will.

I 3D printed some Ampseal connector boots to keep the wires tidy, pardon the tape; it's load bearing. All of this will be concentric twisted, wrapped with kevlar thread and housed in fire resistant sheathing. Fun stuff.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763392837.jpg

This week should be a big one as I want to get the bumper and fender into high build primer and ready for paint this weekend and I need to pull the old hardess and ECU so I can start measuring for the new stuff.

Onward!

This is going to turn out to be so pretty. Where are you planning to mount your ECU this time around?

Showdown 11-17-2025 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe. (Post 12564551)
Where are you planning to mount your ECU this time around?

It's still going under the passenger seat. There's plenty of room to clear (with the low profile boots I made) when I sit in the seat. I suppose if someone's heavier they may bottom out on it. I can always raise the seat a bit for more clearance as these seats are pretty low as-is.

I want to keep the rear seats for the kids (one day they'll get to ride in it...) and I hate seeing the ECU and electronics in the engine bay... but that's because I'm a particular type of jerk ;)

rwest 11-17-2025 03:00 PM

Good stuff Julian,

Following the build closely. My EFI changes are currently just happening in my mind, I need to clear room in the garage before I can dig in.

Best of luck,
Rutager

garment 11-18-2025 11:47 AM

Sub'd

ToySnakePMC 11-18-2025 09:11 PM

Vapor blasted parts do look oh so good, and please don’t hesitate to share any and all pics on the wiring job as us other nerds love this stuff! This coupe is in good hands. Patrick

Showdown 11-24-2025 06:45 AM

This was a big week so I'll jump right into it.

As I don't have the kids this week I was able to get into work at 6 and stay later as well. This afforded me time to dig into the wiring harness in earnest.

All week I was chipping away at the fender; filling, sanding, filling, sanding etc. I turned a lot of money into dust; a particular skill I have. Eventually it was all smooth and good to go after 400 grit sanding.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763945618.jpg

Before the fender receives any paint the back side must be treated so I whipped out my very fancy Wurth spray gun and shot a whole bunch of stone guard on the backside, This was way more fun than it should have been and now I want to stone guard everything.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763945150.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763945150.jpg

I mentioned that this time around I really wanted to elevate my work and that begins with planning the routing of each wire and where it will sit in the harness. The main harness from the ECU to the Deutsch connector in the engine bay will be concentrically wrapped. In the core all the important signal wires will be twisted with their grounds and sleeved in shielding: cam, crank, TPS, and knock x2. These 5 bundles will be twisted into a central core. Around this will be the first 18 wires wrapped around and twisted the opposite direction of the core. Atop that will be the outer layer of 9 wires again wrapped in the opposite direction of the first layer of wires. Atop this kevlar wire binding, you guessed it, in the opposite direction of the last layer of wires. All this makes for a very tight, tidy, flexible and resilient bundle. Finally, fire resistant sheathing to encase the whole thing.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763945150.jpg

In order to make this easy(er) I printed a few wire twisters. These turned an otherwise very complicated and tedious job into one that took less than an hour.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763945150.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763945150.jpg

The same procedure was then executed with all the power wires as they stay outside of the main harness to avoid any chance of interference.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763945150.jpg

I also started on some of the other wires that will go into the Eaton Bussmann fuse/relay housing. Wiring porn ahead.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763945150.jpg

As a departure from the fine detail work I also milled out the lower valve covers for twin plugs. The first hole took about 30 minutes and the next 5 the same. Such is life.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763995515.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763945150.jpg

And that brings me to Saturday which was another big if less productive than I would have hoped for day...

Showdown 11-24-2025 06:51 AM

Bright and early at 6am I was at work setting up the shop for paint. I wanted to get both the bumper and the fender painted and well, I did.

Like last time I used good old rattle can paint- two full cans on the bumper to ensure that there's a thick layer. I got one run that I'll sand out in a few days when it's dry but otherwise it's exactly what I wanted and expected. After sanding I'll coat it with satin 2K clearcoat to achieve the same finish I had on the old bumper.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763945681.jpg

Once that was done I setup the spray room for the fender and proceeded to shoot that. I wasn't as locked in as I was when I painted the car a few years ago but my experience painting things really helped as it was less stressful and the results were just as good. No orange peel, no real waviness or other defects. I did get one sag that I'll sand out but otherwise no real issues this time around. Phew!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763945707.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763945707.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763945707.jpg

While that was drying with more time in the day I started working on some of the engine bits that are still in the shop. Specifically, I wanted to tackle the gasket/mating surfaces of, well, everything that I could; leaks be damned. Valve covers, timing chain housing covers, oil breather cover, crank cover, etc... The process was simple if time consuming. First paint the surface with Dychem, let it dry, sand until no more Dychem. Easy with small parts, harder with big parts but eventually all the surfaces went from this:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763945781.jpg

To this:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763945756.jpg

And finally, this:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763945799.jpg

And then I hit a wall. I had steam but nothing to do. Can't sand the bumpers, waiting on wire connectors to finish the cabin side of the harnesses, waiting on engine parts, everything is cleaned and sorted, so, what to do...

Play around, I guess.

I'm switching from an early bumper with holes in the lower valance to an S bumper without. I'm also going to higher compression, more aggressive pistons and cams and generally making the engine meaner. With the engine mounted cooler and the fan assisted fender cooler I never really had any trouble with cooling save for sitting in traffic on 90+ degree days but even still everything was under control.

That said, a friend with the same bumper does have cooling issues and I figured it would be a fun exercise to see if I could design something to assist with that.
This will be a little air scoop that mounts to the lower edge of the left side of the bumper and scoops*and shoves fresh air to the fan.

Initial CFD modeling shows that at 60mph the air will enter, slow down a bit along the edges to about 30mph but maintain 50mph in the center and then exit at 60+ mph due to the venturi effect. This little scoop- roughy 30cm x 160cm will capture about 3.5CFM at 60mph. Not a massive amount but better than nothing. I suppose the scoop could be bigger but at that point it's probably worth it to either add another cooler.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763945823.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763945823.PNG

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763995645.jpg

In any event that wraps up a pretty productive week. With the holiday I probably won't be back at it for 2 weeks and hopefully by then I'll have the parts I need to finish up the wiring and start on the engine harness!

Happy Thanksgiving, friends!

shoooo32 11-24-2025 07:59 AM

Stoked as always for these updates. Lapped flat gasket surfaces will give your mag case a fighting chance at being leak free. And I love the printed duct. If/when it gets smacked on something you're a print away from a replacement.

silverlock 11-24-2025 09:09 AM

Those ducts are great. What are you printing them out of?

For context on the cooling side + although I'm not running a mag-case 2.7: on a high-CR 3.2SS with an engine cooler + fender cooler + 7.5" SPAL fan I have _zero_ issues, even in NYC traffic on a 90deg day. 195F thermoswitch kicks the fan in sooner and the only real ducting I have is the little Achtung Kraft vent + the shroud/rock guard around the cooler to direct air to it. Even at 5k+ RPM for 10+ minutes and at altitude in NC with you I'd barely peak at 210-215F. It'd be back down to 200F within a minute or two of hitting traffic or cruising speeds.

I suspect you'll be fine with that duct/scoop. Plus it looks cool :-)

Showdown 11-24-2025 09:28 AM

This was a test fit out of basic PLA but the final will be out of PA6-GF/CF glass/carbon reinforced nylon; ABS. Should be plenty strong and resist temp/UV exposure I'll have to see how they look when the bumper is mounted- final shape is still open for changes.

Yeah, like I said, I don't think cooling will be an issue- in NC chasing you guys I was well above 5k for way longer than 10 mins- sometimes 6k+ and I was only at 225-230 and like you said, right back down to 200 once off the throttle.

montauk 11-25-2025 04:25 AM

Nice work on the harness. I like your wire twisters - very clever.


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