Case Saver For Sump Pan?

[AFB24911S]

When I last changed my oil, I noticed that one of the eight studs that holds the sump pan on came out with the nut attached when I loosened the nuts. When I went to put the stud back in, it wouldn't torque down. Now, after some driving, it has fallen out. 7/8 isn't bad, don't think it's causing an oil leak, but seems like I ought to fix it.

Can a case saver that small be installed, and if so can it be installed with the engine still in the car? How does one install a case saver?

[john walker's workshop]

Timesert. Youtube it.

[Fly911]

Are you on the right forum...?
911s don't have sump pans...

[Reiver]

Originally Posted by Fly911

Are you on the right forum...?
911s don't have sump pans...

SC's had a plate with nuts that came off to expose the screen at the oil pump pick up ...a sump of sorts....

[AFB24911S]

Sump plate, then? That's what the catalog calls it.

Here's an awesome video I found per John's recommendation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhZTmTW_Ofg

And here's Time Sert's catalog of metric tools:

++ TIME-SERT Metric Kits ++ thread repair kits and inserts repair stripped threads damaged threads repaired threads threaded inserts for metal thread inserts for metal aluminum inserts threaded inserts for aluminum

Pretty sure I need the 6mm kit for my repair. Thanks for the advice John, we'll see how it goes from under the car!

[AFB24911S]

Well, first I need to measure the depth of the hole. Will measure this weekend and post measurement.

[smadsen]

The studs usually have a long end and a short end. Clean the stud threads, double nut the short end and screw the long end into the case. You might find a few good threads in the bottom of the hole. You'll want a new stud from our host anyway, so use that one. Torque sparingly.

If that doesn't work, go to Plan B.

Plan C, I've gone 7/8 and it seems adequate, but it's bad feng shui.

[Bill Douglas]

I know it sounds a bit dodgy, but at times like this I shove a bit of copper wire in the hole then thread the stud back in. Generally it has enough hold if you don't over torque it.

[dannobee]

As John said, Timesert. You tube it.

Yours is a 77? If that's true, then it's a mag case and it wasn't uncommon. There are plenty of different lengths of Timeserts to choose from. Measure the depth of the hole, get the kit, and have at it. Make sure that it's flush with the case before you send it home with the locking tap.

[Harpo]

Dont drill the hole any deeper

[Walt Fricke]

Fly - your Carrera doesn't have a sump plate. Very late 1983 SCs didn't have a plate, because the dies for the earlier cases had worn out, so Porsche just used the new ones they had made for the Carrera case.

But everything earlier has a sump plate, with the drain plug in it. Not on the side of the case, like yours.

[AFB24911S]

Measured the hole; it's 20mm deep, and the website sells 19mm inserts. Just in case I get gun shy, I also bought 15mm inserts. Will update next week when they arrive.

!!!EDIT!!!

FUTURE READERS BEWARE: I wrongly measured depth with the plate still in place, without the plate in the way my hole measured to 17.8mm. Do not drill too far!

[AFB24911S]

Well, That was more than a week, but the kit and the inserts came.

The instructions say the following for blind holes:

"If the hole is a blind hole repair (does not pass thru) Read below note. As a basic rule for blind holes the insert should be 1/4 inch or 6mm shorter than the hole depth.
A) Start by measuring the depth of the hole
B) Mark the drill, tap, driver tools so you do not bottom out tools in the hole."

My holes are 20mm deep, and I bought 15mm inserts. Should I go to the 12 mm depth to avoid exceeding the 6mm recommended by the "basic rule?" I'm worried 12 mm won't be deep enough, but I'm more worried about damaging the case.

[john walker's workshop]

12 is fine. It's not like they need a lot of torque.

[AFB24911S]

Alright, mission accomplished! Not perfectly, but... accomplished! See below for some lessons learned from an amateur.

First off, I had to edit my previous reply because I wrongly measured the depth of the hole with the plate in place. Without the plate in place, the hole was 17.8mm deep.

I decided to try to stick with the 12mm long insert. I tapped the old threads out using motor oil and a hand tap, which worked very well. No need for a drill for this operation, slow and steady is the way. I wrapped the drill bit in electrical tape to mark my depth. (Here's where my main error was: rather than marking the correct 17.8mm depth, to remove all the threads, I marked 12mm. Keep reading for why that was wrong.) Between each of these steps, I used a lot of q-tips and then a little brake cleaner with the red plastic attachment bent up into the hole to clean metal shavings out.

Then, I drilled the counter-sink: easiest step in the operation, good place to use the drill, hard to make a mistake on this step. Lots of lubrication, medium speed, and gentle pressure with careful alignment worked for me here.

Next, I tapped the new threads. Again, slow and steady and lots of oil or lubrication. I was taught to do a half turn in, a quarter turn out, a half turn in, and a quarter turn out over and over again to allow the cuttings to back out of the tap properly but as I went further I dropped down to 1/4 forward and 1/8 back. Monday morning quarterbacking myself, I might have removed the tap all the way half way through the job and cleaned everything.

Lastly, it was time to install the new time-sert! Excitement! I oiled the insert tool, threaded the insert on partially, and began to twist it in. All was well until, at my 12mm mark, the insert hadn't seated all the way. I realized my mistake: to allow the insert tool to drive 6mm past the end of the time sert, as the instructions suggest, I should have drilled out the threads to the full depth so that the insert tool didn't have anything to catch on! D'oh, too late!

I tried backing out the insert by using pliers, and then vice grips; no dice. I decided to carefully use the drill bit and the tap handle to cut the insert out. As I was doing that, the part of the insert that was proud of the engine case simply sheared off, leaving nothing but new threads for my fastener to go into. Success!

In short, when using a time-sert kit, drill 6mm deeper than the insert so that the insert tool doesn't have anything in its way when you drive the time sert in. I interpreted the instructions to mean that the hole should be 6mm deeper than the insert, not that the hole must be drilled that deep.

We'll see if the repair holds; if it doesn't, I can always tap the old time sert out, drill the full depth, and use a shallower insert.