Car and Driver Feb 74, Bobby Allison tests new 911s (images)

[dd74]

In the stats for all three cars, does it say their fuel injection system was "mechanical," as in MFI?

By '74, FI was supposed to be CIS.

[Matt Holcomb]

dd74,

They talk about the RS and RSR in the article, and make a point to mention that the '74 model line-up for the U.S. market shares only one thing with the RS: the same displacement.


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[Tyson Schmidt]

CIS is a type of mechanical fuel injection. It just isn't called MFI because the name was already taken. So, they used "continuous" to differentiate it from the timed, sequential MFI.

[Chuck Moreland]

That was a very one-sided review. Of the few compliments they had for the car, most were back handed.

Yet their own performance figures in the charts tell a very different story. The vette was completely trounced. Embarassing really.

29 years later which car is still highly coveted as both a street and track car? I can't remember the last time I saw a '74 vette on a track.

[dd74]

Yes Matt: I meant '74s in the U.S. were CIS. Sorry for the confusion.

But Tyson cleared it up nicely.

[Paul Franssen]

Very interesting reading.

I'm not privy to the whole NASCAR (have I got it right?) scene, over here in Europe we don't basically know jack**** about this oval racing (well, at least I know I don't). And I'm willing to render respect to this Mr. Allison.

His comments on the ...915... seem a bit rash, but then, I've read lotsa postings on this board discussing the relative merits (and de-merits) of that gearbox!

As to the references to the car's handling, well, all I can say is that they are in line with many other reports, also on this board, warning drivers of the ill effects of lifting the foot off the gas and/or braking when the going gets hairy. I read the article with interest and -again- consider that to be fair warning!

Love the 911 versus Corvette stats: steel beats plastic

[JackT]

Bobby Allison was a great race car drive. He drove well balanced, front engine, huge horse power, large cars and did it well. Putting him in a rear engine, low horsepower ( to his standards) sports car and telling him to drive it like he does his stock cars, is not a fair comparison. I am far from being a Bobby Allison, but before I bought a Porsche, I restored and vintage raced mid year corvettes. 63-67. It took alot of getting used to the difference in going from a heavy front end with a a lot of torque to the heavy rear end Porsche. The more I drove the Porsche, the more I liked it, and the better I got. The most humbled that I have been was getting my porsche and that week end taking a PCA drivers ed. Trying to drive it like a 1966, big block corvette caused me to spin out 3 times and asked to hang it up for the day, on a track that I had driven on 7 times before with no spin out in a Corvette.

[jluetjen]

Stephan;
I grant you that many of us on this BBS have obvious bias's toward's 911's. But to assume that Bobby had no bias's against them is also quite the stretch. Witness the "Krautwagon" comment. Coming from a 1st generation German-American family, that comment sure sounded biased to me. Had he forgotten that WW2 had already been over for 25 years???

I suspect that Bobby was an outstanding NASCAR driver, but does that make him a truely great driver in the mold of Foyt, Andretti, Moss, Fangio, Sienna, Ernhardt, J. Gordon or M. Schumacher? I doubt it. To be great at one facit of the sport you need huge amounts of focus, skill and determination, and I'm sure that Bobby had all of those. To be great at many facits of the sport also require an open mind and the ability to learn and master new ideas -- quickly. I never saw a lot of evidence that Bobby had many of those qualities. As a result he will always be a step down from the names I listed above.

[Jeremy Cottrell]

Wow, 125 MPH !! A true supercar. And 75 cents for a mag. Ahhh the good old days.

[cowtown]

THANKS EMCON5! I love reading these old articles.
Colin

[rdane]

Great article, even putting aside the unknown agendas behind every magazine article.

Time gives perspective. 30 years latter the Porsche is a collector's performance car that can still be driven. The '73 Vette was "tired" when new in comparison. How long did it take for a Vette to match the numbers of a even a early Carrara let alone a mid '80s production Turbo?

"Krautwagon" wasn't socially acceptable in '73 let alone in today's PC world. No question Allison was a skiled driver. But to think that his results in the IROC series didn't taint his view is silly. No matter personal views or editorial content from 30 years ago, time has proven the worth and preformance of the 911.

[bigchillcar]

Tom, awesome! Thanks for sharing that.

0-60 in 5.8 seconds for a 167bhp 2.7 K-Jet?

[edit] oh yeah, '74 models had the 7:31 r&p, eh?

Does my US '74 have the 7:31 R&P?? I've been under the impression that the '74 didn't come with this rear end. My car is a basic 911, stock, and matches the speeds in the manual at the top of every gear (1-4 at least...haven't had room for 5th )
But my car from a rolling start can consistently hit 0-60 in 7 seconds. I think it would take abusing it to exceed that. Does this sound like other basic, stock '74's? Mine feels like it has more zip off the line than a friend's '76 911S, but I suspect his would catch me after we'd reach hiway speeds and beyond...
Ryan

[Chuck Moreland]

Originally posted by rdane
"Krautwagon" wasn't socially acceptable in '73 let alone in today's PC world.

That actually is interesting that a major publication would print the term "Krautwagon". I'm certain C&D wouldn't print it today. It's almost refreshing to think we weren't so up tight 30 years ago.

I'm of German heritage, yet I can appreciate the humor in this. It was obviously tongue-in-cheak.

But it also illustrates the bias Alison brought to the review. Essentially resorting to name calling.

The article started with a lengthy explaination of how Alison wasn't in Porsche's back pocket. But he did come in with an obvious bias - against the cars.

The subtle slams are all through the article. Likening the 911 to the VW Bug, discounting the CIS as a knockoff of the Corvette FI system circa 1958 ....etc...etc.

[Superman]

Sticks and stones......

My profession gives me a front row seat for greed viewing and it seems to me that this was the most powerful of the forces which shaped this article. Commercial interests. It was on target commercially. If we took that out of the equation, the article would be misleading and pathetic, at best.

[dd74]

Originally posted by bigchillcar
Does my US '74 have the 7:31 R&P?? I've been under the impression that the '74 didn't come with this rear end. My car is a basic 911, stock, and matches the speeds in the manual at the top of every gear (1-4 at least...haven't had room for 5th )
But my car from a rolling start can consistently hit 0-60 in 7 seconds. I think it would take abusing it to exceed that. Does this sound like other basic, stock '74's? Mine feels like it has more zip off the line than a friend's '76 911S, but I suspect his would catch me after we'd reach hiway speeds and beyond...
Ryan

Yes, '74s have the 7.31 ring and pinion. They changed to 8.31 in 1975.

I believe the reason those cars in the article are so fast is simply because "testers" don't give a damn about the after-effect of slamming a car as hard as they could to get the best 0-60 time.

Because you've been going 0-60 a second slower than these cars means your 7.31 ring and pinion will last twice as long.

[caliber60]

Golden era of 911. Everything looks and feels right.

[JEB]

This is a great thread. I have not had a chance to read the article yet but I get the idea.

I really liked the Automobile article about Gorden driving in a WRC sideshow event. He did really well. As others have noted, most top notch drivers grew up abusing anything with wheels (or an engine). I would guess they can drive most things competently or better. Allison, I'm sure was a competent driver - although (as someone noted)not in a league with Andretti or my boyhood favorite Foyt. Foyt (and Andretti) won in Indy cars, stock cars, LeMans cars, off road trucks - you name it and he excelled.

Steve - were you at C&D when it was a political/social commentary magazine as well as a car magazine. I used to love P.J. O'Rourke/ DED/Yates - they talked as much about politics as they did cars - but still really knew and loved cars. None ot today's car magazines are able to capture that feel. Jean Jennings just doesn't seem to get it in my opinion.

Car magazines are another topic I guess.

I would much rather have a '74 S than a fugly '74 Vette. The right Vettes are bringing good prices though.

Just my cluttered rambelings.

[pwd72s]

CAR & DRIVER...It sure isn't Porsche Panorama... Thanks for the read.

[RallyJon]

I'm curious what commonly available cars of the era would outrun a 911 around a racetrack? A Ferrari Dino, maybe? A BMW CS coupe? What was the 911's real competition back then?

[dd74]

In a recent Classic Car Magazine, a '73 911 E or maybe T out ran a Dino of the same year. It wasn't on a track, though. Just trap times, braking and handling. For example, the 911 went 0-60 in 6.6 seconds, while the Dino took (I think) 7 seconds.

If these C&D tests have any validity (because 911 speed tests fluxuate tremendously), every one of the '74 model series would beat the '73 series cars, including an S, in 0-60 times, since I recall a '73 S as also clocking within the mid 6 range.

So to answer your question, at least in speed trap terms, a first year G-series Porsche would probably beat a same-model year Dino if not much about the Dino changed, i.e. horsepower and gearing, etc.