72 Brake upgrade

[tikihut]

Well... It looks like the targa thats been sitting for too many years needs the brakes completely gone thru. Thinking now would be the time for an upgrade. I have a set of alloy-S calipers which probably need to be rebuilt and would require 3.5" spindles/strut housings as well..Correct? . Its a stock Targa with a fresh 2.7/ 40 PMO's Just need to get her back on the road. Any advise would be appreciated!!

Cheers, Mark.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by tikihut

Well... It looks like the targa thats been sitting for too many years needs the brakes completely gone thru. Thinking now would be the time for an upgrade. I have a set of alloy-S calipers which probably need to be rebuilt and would require 3.5" spindles/strut housings as well..Correct? . Its a stock Targa with a fresh 2.7/ 40 PMO's Just need to get her back on the road. Any advise would be appreciated!!

Cheers, Mark.

Yep, get a set of Bilsteins for the front, the S bolt on, rotor stays the same, rear stays the same, m/c stays the same

[tikihut]

Thanks Bill! Is there a difference between the Bilsteins and Boge ?

[kent olsen]

Years ago I replaced my four discs with aftermarket drilled/slotted disc's. Then I replaced the front 'M' with a caliper from an 'SC'. It's bolt on and is 20% larger than the 'M'. I've run my 72 on many tracks both east and west coast with no problems, (cracking). I now have 248,000 miles on the car.

[Scott Longballa]

Expensive but the Elephant 930 calipers bolt on. You'd need the whole kit with new master cylinder. It's a sweet set up. You need to go to 3.5 spacing up front.

[Neven911]

A cheaper and easier way IMO is to get some Brembo Ali front calipers off an Alfa 75, direct bolt on replacement for the m caliper, HTH Neven

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by tikihut

Thanks Bill! Is there a difference between the Bilsteins and Boge ?

yes, Bilstein is a far better choice

it would be nice to do the rear at the same time

[tikihut]

Just found these in a box.. Not sure what they came off but looks like the same issue.. 3.5" spacing on the fronts.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by tikihut

Just found these in a box.. Not sure what they came off but looks like the same issue.. 3.5" spacing on the fronts.

The big ones are A calipers and yes they are interchangeable w/ the S calipers( 3.5" mounts and same sized pad), Some prefer the A due to their increased stiffness over the S, Some prefer the S over the A because they are lighter. Both are very minor points not worth worrying about. They both use the same rotors and m/c that you already have on the car

The smaller ones appear to be rear Ms same as you already have on the back of your '72

[Trackrash]

A good used set of either Bilstein or Koni or newer Boge front struts may be the answer. I scored a good set of front Koni struts a few years ago in good shape and reasonably priced. Not sure what the availability is now days. A friend of mine recently bought new Boge struts for his '71....

[chrismorse]

Hi Tiki,
Many owners have opined that stock "M" brakes are completely adequate for daily fun use. If you are going to do more sporting use of the car, like fast auto crosses, or track use, (DE or more serious "racing"), then you may need more ability to get rid of heat with wider rotors, (going from 20 mm rotors to 24 mm, which also entails going to the wide A caliper).
Upgrading the brakes is expensive and the guys on this and other forums almost always recommend first, getting back to stock, that is, at least minimum+ thickness rotors, fresh pads, a good flush, with high temp fluid, stainless lines and a caliper overhaul if they are leaking or sticking.
Then, if you find that the pedal is getting soft, which indicates fluid boiling and the inability of the brakes to dissipate the kinetic energy - or, you find that the pedal is firm, but the brakes seem to be ineffective in slowing the car down, Then, you need more thermal mass, (disc thickness and or diameter).
An intermediate approach, (which i am now trying on my "M" equipped 74), is to provide more air to the front discs with air ducting.
What you will get with the S calipers is a larger pad area, which will help a little, but not a lot with dissipating the heat, better pad life and a reduction is unsprung weight. Some have opined that the aluminum caliper flexes more than an iron caliper and that this detracts a very small bit from the upgrade.

If you are experiencing pad or fluid fade, even a small amount, a brake upgrade will improve your times and give you not only a better "feel", (more consistent - solid pedal), but better brake component life, because, pads and discs wear out much faster at high temps.

I have faded the brakes on almost everything - boiled the fluid or faded the pads - I overcame this with more thermal mass, better air flow, better pads, ss lines and frequent, desperate prayers to Dr Porsche.
chris

[thetorch]

Originally Posted by Scott Longballa

Expensive but the Elephant 930 calipers bolt on. You'd need the whole kit with new master cylinder. It's a sweet set up. You need to go to 3.5 spacing up front.

I agree on the 930 ERXs, but be advised this can affect your wheel choices. 15x6 Fuchs will JUST fit over them but you may need 2mm spacers to make sure they are off the calipers.

And space saver SC spare wheels or 15x6 steelies or 15x6 aluminum steelies will not fit over the calipers.

Ask me how I know...

[Scott Longballa]

Chuck redesigned them so they fit everything. 7R's were tight and deep sixes on the early run but he redid them for the 71 Hot I sent to him for brakes. Fits just fine. This was done early on. 2mm spacer shouldn't matter much but I hear you on the spares. I don't carry a spare I carry AAA.

[thetorch]

Originally Posted by Scott Longballa

Chuck redesigned them so they fit everything. 7R's were tight and deep sixes on the early run but he redid them for the 71 Hot I sent to him for brakes. Fits just fine. This was done early on. 2mm spacer shouldn't matter much but I hear you on the spares. I don't carry a spare I carry AAA.

Agreed. They fit over my 15x6 flat Fuchs. They do not fit 7R Maxilites nor 15x6 Maxilites, however, because the barrels are narrower than real Fuchs.

Just pointing out what I learned having owned the 930 ERXs.

[tikihut]

Thanks for all the input. Its a Targa(not that targa is bad thing) and I have future track car in the works..So Im thinking the "M" calipers or the S alloys I have will be fine. Anyone have a referral for rebuilds in the Bend area?

[tobluforu]

I used to auto-x my 72 and drove the piss out of it all over the mountains and never had an issue with the stock calipers. I never raced my car, so no comment there.

[Scott Longballa]

Just ship them to PMB.

[tikihut]

Where are they located

[Scott Longballa]

pmbperformance.com