Ben Coles Historic racing components

[m110]

While searching for front 930 brake conversion options I came upon

Home

Beautiful stuff.

Does anyone have experience with the "32. Front disk bells to suit 917 or turbo calipers"




Also had aluminum door skins and modern aluminum impact crush tubes...tasty.

[Kemo]

interesting stuff...

[Martin P]

Hi,
I know Ben quite well .He is a great engineer who knows all the right complementary specialists around Birmingham which is the hub of British engineering.
The photos on his website are terrible but the quality of his products is excellent.
He also has stock of all the products he advertises.
He is sometimes difficult to get hold of as he is a busy man welding up chassis of Honda BTCC cars,
Martin

[JohnJL]

nice stuff. he should list prices.

[H-viken]

Originally Posted by johnjl

nice stuff. He should list prices.

+1

[fanaudical]

I think his engine sump plates are sold here on Pelican (I have one - nice piece of work). Maybe Pelican will offer more of his stuff?

[BURN-BROS]

Originally Posted by fanaudical

I think his engine sump plates are sold here on Pelican (I have one - nice piece of work). Maybe Pelican will offer more of his stuff?

I produce the sump plates that are available on Pelican and I have shipped sump plates to sellers in Germany and Belgium.

There are two scenarios how Mr. Coles has come to sell that part as I have never sold to him directly.

1. He has purchased them through Germany/Belgium or Even Pelican.

2. He has copied my design

Based on all the other replica components he offers as a manufacturer, I believe it is #2....unfortunately.

[KTL]

Always helps to ask what's made here in USA. You'd be surprised what you find. For instance:

As Aaron mentioned, he makes a really nice sump cover amongst other things.

JB Racing can set you up with their aluminum adjustable cam sprockets that do away with the funky 24-position pinhole setup.

German Precision makes the chain tensioner idler sprockets in various tooth counts.

JimmyT here on Pelican makes cam bore/MFI drive plugs, Ti lug nuts, RSR t-stat diverters and many other trick custom vintage parts. Very talented, very nice guy.

WEVO makes a similar 915 trans gear cooling system

Clint @ Rebel Racing Products makes the 930 rotor hats, RSR sway bars, Ti valve retainers, tie rod drop links, and various other nice racing/vintage bits.

Henry @ Supertec provides the RSR spark plug hold downs, 906 aluminum engine air guides, underdrive crank pulley, fantastic head studs, and much more.

PMO can provide just about any carb part & associated linkage you can think of.

Rennline can provide the engine crossbar, various tow hooks, wheel spacers, interior trim, and many other nice accessories.

Nothing against Great Britain. Just saying nearly all of that stuff he offers can be had here. That said, some parts are indeed unique- repro RSR trailing arms and oil filter housing for instance. Gotta be pretty darn expensive too.....

[GeorgeK]

Originally Posted by JohnJL

nice stuff. he should list prices.

+1. Such a site, with tiny pictures, no detail on how he makes them (has them made?), and no prices, is nothing more than a teaser. I am not ready to ask for prices based on such little info.

[Martin P]

Ben does not have photos of the sump guards on his website ,he custom makes them depending on application.
I therefore can't see how anyone can presume he steals there designs
He is a steel fabricator among other things
He was Bjorn Waldegard's mechanic on East African Safari rally and has done South American Rallies and has also worked for Tuthills.
That is how come he has all the Porsche skills.
The Porsche stuff is a hobby,not his day job.
If you want a price phone him

[BURN-BROS]

Originally Posted by Martin P

Ben does not have photos of the sump guards on his website ,he custom makes them depending on application.
I therefore can't see how anyone can presume he steals there designs

Martin, I am referring to Sump Plates not sump guards.

This is from his site


This is my product as listed on Pelican.



I believe that I can make the presumption as they appear to be identical. I feel confident that if I measured details of the plate, it would be based on imperial units of measure....not metric. Hobby or not, if he copied my design it is considered theft.

To design a product, create tooling and generate an inventory is not cheap.

[BURN-BROS]

Thanks John, I feel so much better! Based on your testimony, Ben would never do such a thing because you consider him a friend. I can sleep well tonight!!!!

Ben makes replica parts....A replica means that someone "copies" a product. Hopefully one's that are long out of production.

[dicklague]

Originally Posted by BURN-BROS

Thanks John, I feel so much better! Based on your testimony, Ben would never do such a thing because you consider him a friend. I can sleep well tonight!!!!

Ben makes replica parts....A replica means that someone "copies" a product. Hopefully one's that are long out of production.

Thanks for making aware of your plate. It looks really cool I am going to buy one from Pelican. I want the REAL thing from a USA company too.

[BURN-BROS]

Originally Posted by johndglynn

The plates on his site came from a mutual friend handing him an RSR plate and saying "can you remake these in case I damage mine".

There is no such thing as an"RSR plate". RSR's ran factory flat steel plate and a production oil pump. The last competition engine to run production oil pumps. It would be either dishonest or ignorant to state that the plate came from such a car.

In fact, the much later 962 calls for sump plate #901 101 388 00 the very same plate found on a 1965 Porsche 911....and also on the R, ST, RSR, 935...

My Sump plate was designed to run an oil pump with an integrated pick up screen. These pumps were not produced until mid year 1983....Long after the RSR. It was quite a specific reason for it's production.

It was the main reason I made the plate....so anybody could put 3.2/ late model turbo/GT3 oil pumps in early cases.

Your scenario required integrated screen oil pumps as early as 1972...clearly those pumps must be rarer than Unicorns or Bigfoot!...or perhaps someone is revising history to suit their needs?



Thanks for the support dicklague, I just shipped out a re-stock order to Pelican today. Support our host when you can.

[Stuggie-73]

Originally Posted by BURN-BROS

Hobby or not, if he copied my design it is considered theft.

To design a product, create tooling and generate an inventory is not cheap.

A bit of a thread resurrection.

I know Ben, I wouldn't say I know him very well, but well enough to know his modus operandi. He is without doubt one of the most talented engineers/fabricators I've met in my 52 years.

I very much doubt Ben has "copied" your sump plates, he has numerous clients and contacts with genuine cars, all trust him implicitly and would happily lend him their original parts to enable him to produce replicas.

His attention to detail is equal to, if not superior than ANY other manufacturer of reproduction parts, yours included. He's always prepared to invest in his own tooling and patternwork, he has no need to plagiarize yours, or indeed anyone else's work, as he has several incredibly talented pattern makers he sub-contracts his work out to.

And to that end he's had tooling produced to enable the manufacture of aluminium door skins and steel 2.8 RSR arch extensions.

His high butterflies use the correct rubber buffers manufactured in the correct material, but just as importantly in the correct colour. His 917 brake calipers are fitted with seals sourced from the original manufacturer, and the finish is applied by the same company that finished them for Girling (a Birmingham (GB) based company) originally.

He is however an artisan, and like most artisans he's not a business man, he does what he does for the joy of proving the many naysayers on this planet, wrong.

If someone bets him he can't produce something, he'll step up to plate and do it to prove them wrong. It may take him 12 months, it may take him 2 years, but rest assured he'll have researched every subtle nuance of the material and the method of manufacture to ensure that what he makes will be as good as if not superior to the original.

But what's more, he won't care if someone on a forum doesn't buy his products because there are no prices on his site, they're not made in the USA, or because the pictures aren't hi-res glossy items shot in a studio.
Neither will he be bothered someone has accused him of plagiarizing their own "original reproduction" part.

Because when all is said and done, he's not overly bothered about selling his parts or indeed making a profit from them (as others have said, he earns his money metal bashing, fabricating and welding real race cars) he makes his reproduction parts for the love of it, not for financial gain.
I appreciate that may be a difficult concept for the capitalists on here to grasp, but rest assured it is the case.

[joe payne]

I'll take a set of the aluminum rear crush tubes since I've already shaved my rear bumper.

[BURN-BROS]

Originally Posted by Stuggie-73

A bit of a thread resurrection.

I know Ben, I wouldn't say I know him very well, but well enough to know his modus operandi. He is without doubt one of the most talented engineers/fabricators I've met in my 52 years.

I very much doubt Ben has "copied" your sump plates, he has numerous clients and contacts with genuine cars, all trust him implicitly and would happily lend him their original parts to enable him to produce replicas.

Your "doubt" is created by your own personal admiration/love for Mr Coles nothing more. If you want to take long walks on the beach with him no one is stopping you. What a joke!

Originally Posted by Stuggie-73

If someone bets him he can't produce something, he'll step up to plate and do it to prove them wrong. It may take him 12 months, it may take him 2 years, but rest assured he'll have researched every subtle nuance of the material and the method of manufacture to ensure that what he makes will be as good as if not superior to the original.

By your own admission he takes known pieces and replicates them. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend that he simply copied my plate?

My sump plate is unique to the Porsche community. The factory never made one, The race cars never had such a part.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by BURN-BROS

Martin, I am referring to Sump Plates not sump guards.

This is my product as listed on Pelican.

I bought your product and absolutely love it. Everyone should replace their crappy tin plates with one of these !

[Weissach911]

I find it difficult to understand why someone would want to make such a large range of parts 'just for the love of doing it' and why they would not want to make a profit.

If you look at the list of parts on the website and look at tooling costs the amount of money invested must be huge.

To say that someone isn't bothered about stealing someone else's design also seems a bit unpleasant and why would anyone invest thousands of dollars to win a bet.

You make it sound as if Ben Coles is a benevolent rich guy which begs the question why he welds up Hondas for a living.

Surely with such an excellent range of parts there must be a living to be made?

I know it's none of my business how he spends his money but it does all sound a bit odd.

[Darren65]

Originally Posted by Weissach911

I know it's none of my business how he spends his money but it does all sound a bit odd.

.....Ben is odd - he's a great guy but at times can be infuriating to deal with and when busy can disappear off the radar and you won't hear from him for weeks. Other times he'll be calling you 3 times a day letting you know how your project is getting on.

His lousy website hasn't been up for a number of weeks, when I quizzed him on this he said it was a good thing as it stopped people calling him! - coming from a sales and marketing background I struggle to get my head around that! - go figure!

Everything that's been said about him doing it for the love is true, his kick is producing a part that looks EXACTLY like an original.....and if that means it was poorly cast back in the day then his work will be just as poor!

I don't want this to sound like a Ben Coles love-in but would like to vouch for what he does.

I'm building a 2.5 ST engine and have purchased his high butterflies, a racing oil filter housing, injection pump brace and bracket and a Magneti Marelli distributor - I didn't realize at the time but the dizzy I purchased was for a later engine case. When I mentioned this to Ben he said a few people had asked about the earlier dizzies so he'd produce them, I borrowed an original dizzy from a friend and he did just that - exactly as per the original

When I purchased an aluminium small fan housing, Ben told me it was wrong and has set about making those too - I posted details here - DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker • View topic - Small Fan Housing & Magneti Marelli Distributor Reproduction

No idea where he copied the sump plate from but I wouldn't worry about him stealing too many sales - he struggles dealing with people and can be hard to pin down at times.

Generally though he'll always respond to emails promptly and for those looking for top quality rare parts it's sure worth the effort!





Cheers,