Hard vs. soft oil cooler lines

[pfleroy]

Finishing up a backdate on my 1974 Targa and I recently purchased a new 3.0 engine (which should get over 260HP when all said and done) to replace my 2.7.

Now I need to install an oil cooler system. What is the performance difference between hard vs. soft cooler lines? I don't have rocker panels to hide the hard lines and with the amount of work going into the backdate I don't really want to see the lines.

Purchased hard lines last week which I've been cleaning.

[Mark Salvetti]

Exposed hard lines seems to be a common feature on a lot of back dates. Whether hard lines or hoses, are there any other options to run them besides the rockers? It's not like a race car where you can run them inside.

Mark

[pfleroy]

I thought you can run the soft lines under the door panels so they won't be visible.

[pfleroy]

this seems like a decent alternative

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/BATKPORD.htm?pn=BAT-KPORD&gclid=CjwKCAjwx7GYBhB7EiwA0d8oewnIavRn8rVB28K7sB1E 69ik22vBJtd8v_8icr9_-vhckpSeprYIvxoCKMwQAvD_BwE

[garment]

What are the main components which got you to 260HP? And is that the expectation at the wheels or at the crank?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by pfleroy

Finishing up a backdate on my 1974 Targa and I recently purchased a new 3.0 engine (which should get over 260HP when all said and done) to replace my 2.7.

Now I need to install an oil cooler system. What is the performance difference between hard vs. soft cooler lines? I don't have rocker panels to hide the hard lines and with the amount of work going into the backdate I don't really want to see the lines.

Purchased hard lines last week which I've been cleaning.

[pfleroy]

260+ at the wheels

did some research and going through the rocker panel completely defeats the purpose of the lines.

still debatable if you use soft lines versus hard lines. sounds like you might need 2 coolers to get the same benefit and that's 2x the cost.

[Nditiz1]

You already have the hard lines and cleaned them up, just run them.

I will be testing a trombone cooler against 269 to the wheels shortly. If temps do not maintain I will move up to the Carrera. The lines do look fine on the outside exposed. You could always paint them the body color to help conceal. The PO did that on my car...because they were lazy and it was a racecar.

[pfleroy]

That’s not a bad idea. I’m trying to find satin black radiator paint. Home Depot was useless and so was Ace. Let us know how the trombone set up works.

Thanks

[icarp]

Originally Posted by Nditiz1

You already have the hard lines and cleaned them up, just run them.

I will be testing a trombone cooler against 269 to the wheels shortly. If temps do not maintain I will move up to the Carrera. The lines do look fine on the outside exposed. You could always paint them the body color to help conceal. The PO did that on my car...because they were lazy and it was a racecar.

220HP @ crank is the upper limit for a trombone oil coller
ian

[fintstone]

The hard lines look pretty darned good if you polish them.

Hard or soft depends on the area of the cooler you use. Use soft lines and use a bigger cooler or use hard lines where they are part of the oil cooler.

[Dpmulvan]

260hp at the wheels from a 3.0 ?? Tell us about this motor.

[spoke]

Will you be adding a fan to the oil cooler? The placement of the oil cooler in the front wheel well is not good and half of the cooler is directly behind the headlight. There's very little space for airflow. I added a fan to the oil cooler on my 930 and it made a world of difference especially when driving slow or at a standstill.

[Antonov]

If you're going to run exposed lines in the factory location, I think OEM or Elephant hard lines work better than soft lines. You can route soft lines through the passenger heater duct area, however that solution isn't for everyone.

As far as oil cooler capacity, I am currently running a single Carrera cooler with a hot 4L (380+whp), and it appears to be doing the trick. I have a second cooler on hand in case I need to add it, however I've done about 3000 miles, plenty of fast canyon runs in SoCal heat, sat in stop and go traffic for over an hour, temps are pretty steady at 180F and climb to 200F on a spirited run.

Getting good air flow to the cooler is very important. For reference I have a very unobstructed flow path to the cooler, no cooler fan, and horns relocated with smaller Hella units. Take that info as you will, everyone's case is different.

Originally Posted by pfleroy

260+ at the wheels

did some research and going through the rocker panel completely defeats the purpose of the lines.

still debatable if you use soft lines versus hard lines. sounds like you might need 2 coolers to get the same benefit and that's 2x the cost.

[gtc]

Lots of negatives for soft lines:
They will sag and look bad, they need replacement periodically, they will dissipate less heat, and most of them will be heavier than the hard lines.

[SWS911]

The 69-71 "S" had hard lines that ran inside the rockers. If you look at the mounting plate that runs down the right front that the rear side of the fender bolts to you will see the embosses in it where the lines used to come out. I don't think they changed it 'til the 964. Then again I've never looked at a 964 to even confirm that. Kinda like the mount for the smog pump on the drivers side chain housing that appeared only in 68 and also never changed 'til the 964. They changed the cover, but not the housing. The only exception being that it was either Magnesium or Aluminum.

[shoooo32]

If you're putting in the amount of effort necessary to make big power with a 3.0, don't skimp on oil cooling. Use the hard lines, carrera cooler and wire in a fan. Why stress a $30k engine over a $100 fan?

[pfleroy]

I'm not concerned about the cost, it is more of an aesthetic issue. I've spent a lot of money, more than I planned, on the project and think the lines look stupid when you don't have rockers (eye sore). Def. don't want to blow up the motor so I'll heed everyone's advice and use the hard lines I have and a Carrera cooler.

[eastbay]

Must not have AC. Then you would matching lines on each side of the car without rocker covers.

After trying it with and without, I always thought that the rockers covers on the G body are something that balanced out the bumpers and valences, so I always keep them these days.

Of course, on the positive note of running without, the oil lines are on the passenger side of the car so you never really have to look at them. Paint them black either way.

[pfleroy]

I removed the old A/C.

I know this is the driver’s side but it’s the same view. I built more of an RS touring car and not hot rod.

I’m going with the exposed lines, painted in black, but would rather bury them in the rocker. I also agree I don’t want to blow up a 30k+ engine because I’m being stupid about what it looks like.

[pfleroy]

Didn’t get a chance to answer how I’m planning to get 260+ hp out of a 3.0. When I bought the engine it dyno’d at 222/195. It has early s cams that I’m swapping out with more modern cams (about 1800) William Knight is designing and he builds some of the fastest cars out there) which should get the engine to 240. I’m changing to bigger headers (another 2k) and a different exhaust (looking at pricing) which hopefully adds another 20-30hp.



Current - 46PMOs
Early s cams
JE Pistons
The compression ratio is 9.5:1.


In my opinion with current specs the engine be closer to 235hp. Maybe with tuning it would be. I’m swapping engines and the friction cost with swapping engines adds up so I’m doing all the changes now. I might also just swap the cams and call it a day. I’d be going from 150hp to 230+ and didn’t build a track car or death trap. I’m only in this mess because I crashed the car two years........