Ignition Options 123 vs Perma vs COP?

[ekc76]

Looking to get feedback on ignition options for a Carb'd 3.2ss build. I like the new Perma-tune dizzy and ignition module with it's new tech (bluetooth) and 123 Dizzy's look great, have the features and sounds like they work well. Also coil on plug crank fire could be a good option, but hard to source a complete kit. I have a set of 46 Webers going on it. Pro's Con's and opinions?

[snbush67]

I have had incredible results with the 123 distributor, easy to install and simple to program any curve. Also it cleans up the engine bay nicely. Another nice thing is that using the app, you can adjust your timing while the motor is running. Combined with an AFR and a passenger you have a great tuning opportunity to dial in perfect timing!

[snbush67]

123 Screenshots.

[ekc76]

That is a thing of beauty... I really like the app and ability to tune. What CDI are you using Bosch CDI, MSD or other? Thanks!

[snbush67]

No CDI, it’s all internal to the 123 distributor. That’s the beauty of the picture I posted. I have nothing on the driver side panel, all that stuff is gone.

[ekc76]

Ah I see, That makes it even better. Thanks again for the feedback!

[KMoore68]

Originally Posted by snbush67

No CDI, it’s all internal to the 123 distributor. That’s the beauty of the picture I posted. I have nothing on the driver side panel, all that stuff is gone.

Now I'm really confused ... I thought the 123 Distributor needed the CDI unit still.

[KMoore68]

I'm also watching this thread with interest as I've been thinking of going with the 123 Distributor on my 1977 911 S Targa with a stock 2.7

[snbush67]

Originally Posted by KMoore68

Now I'm really confused ... I thought the 123 Distributor needed the CDI unit still.

123 web pages don’t do a great job of highlighting this capability. And the documentation/instructions aren’t easily understood.

The distributor tucks in nicely and looks right at home. I think it is a bit smaller than the original.

[911 SLANT]

What jetting did you end up going with on your 46 PMOs to match up with you 123 distributor. I also have 46 PMOs and am planning to go with the 123 Dist. Still trying to dial it all in

[snbush67]

Originally Posted by KMoore68

Now I'm really confused ... I thought the 123 Distributor needed the CDI unit still.

You have to make sure you order the right one, I think the one that work with the 6 pin CDI only work with the CDI, but the one that work with the 3 pin CDI work with it or without it. So if you opt to get the one to run without a CDI you can never go back to a 6 pin.

These are the options if you want to go with out a CDI.

[snbush67]

Originally Posted by 911 SLANT

What jetting did you end up going with on your 46 PMOs to match up with you 123 distributor. I also have 46 PMOs and am planning to go with the 123 Dist. Still trying to dial it all in

I’m in the midst of tuning under the careful eye of Icarp who is also a 123 tech expert.

Getting good AFR’s ( 13.8-14.5) except at light cruise it goes a bit rich to 12.1-12.5.

Current configuration is;

Chokes/ Venturies 38
Main Jets 145
Airs 170
Idle Jets 55
E Tubes F11

Fuel pressure at 3.0. Accelerator pumps set at full range of motion, 7/32”
nuts are all the way out.

Engine runs super smooth through all transitions, gobs of instant power, no stumble no stress, no hesitation or weird noises, just goes like stank.

Cold starts with 5 full pumps. Warm start just a feather of pressure on the pedal.

[snbush67]

Had to double check. I’ve changed these out so many times I forgot where I left off. The above jetting is correct.

[pampadori]

Any chance to sell the carbs off and go ITBs and efi?
COP with a modern $1500 ecu gets you oh so much more with load based ign advance.

[mysocal911]

Originally Posted by snbush67

No CDI, it’s all internal to the 123 distributor. That’s the beauty of the picture I posted. I have nothing on the driver side panel, all that stuff is gone.

This requires a non-CDI coil, e.g. the Bosch blue coil, or the 123 distributor will be damaged.

You will have a spare one in the car if it fails, right?

[mysocal911]

Originally Posted by ekc76

Looking to get feedback on ignition options for a Carb'd 3.2ss build. I like the new Perma-tune dizzy and ignition module with it's new tech (bluetooth) and 123 Dizzy's look great, have the features and sounds like they work well. Also coil on plug crank fire could be a good option, but hard to source a complete kit. I have a set of 46 Webers going on it. Pro's Con's and opinions?

Ask Porsche owners who used their Bosch CDI core for a "new" Perma-Tune, and later the Perma-Tune failed and was NOT repairable.

[mysocal911]

Originally Posted by snbush67

I’m in the midst of tuning under the careful eye of Icarp who is also a 123 tech expert.

Getting good AFR’s ( 13.8-14.5) except at light cruise it goes a bit rich to 12.1-12.5.

Current configuration is;

Chokes/ Venturies 38
Main Jets 145
Airs 170
Idle Jets 55
E Tubes F11

Fuel pressure at 3.0. Accelerator pumps set at full range of motion, 11/32 nuts are all the way out.

Engine runs super smooth through all transitions, gobs of instant power, no stumble no stress, no hesitation or weird noises, just goes like stank.

Cold starts with 5 full pumps. Warm start just a feather of pressure on the pedal.

Please fully explain its benefit.

[911 SLANT]

Icarp is also a friend of mine. He's going to help me out with the 123 distributor.

[ekc76]

snbush67 very informative this helps a lot, I’m leaning towards the 123. Sounds dialed in!

[snbush67]

Originally Posted by pampadori

Any chance to sell the carbs off and go ITBs and efi?
COP with a modern $1500 ecu gets you oh so much more with load based ign advance.

Not a chance.