Help decoding color - 1977 Porsche 911s

[grimmy2016]

I have a '77 911s and it has the following color code on its plate in the doorwell. I cant seem to find any reference in the charts for this color.

Made in Western Germany
Kunstharzlack
172-9-3

The car was repainted black prior to my ownership, and I can see what appears to be bits of orangy brown metallic in parts of the engine bay, but not sure if that was a repaint either.

Any help to determine the color would be appreciated.

[roblav]

I seriously doubt your 1977 911 was made in East Germany.

[EC900]

I also have a 77S. Mine was a “Paint-to-Sample” color option that was not offered in 1977. I think you may have the same option. I tried looking up a few sites out of curiosity but as you have, I found nothing. It may take a bit more digging, and btw, did you try searching Rennbow.org?

https://www.rennbow.org/porsche-colors

Any way, if your 77 was a paint to sample it would be a color that obviously wasn’t offered, it may be an old 4-digit code that is not easily found using in your situation, the 3-digit code of 172. This caused some confusion, I’m not sure when Porsche converted older paint codes. It could very well be a color for a vintage 356 or a VW for that matter that the original purchaser was fond of at the time. For instance, my 77 is #018-9-2 (stamped tag #) last available from the factory offerings in 1972 as #6809. If your 77 was not necessarily a Porsche factory color, I would know if they would apply a “172” paint color…say if the original owner wanted the color to match his ‘55 Austin Healy. Porsche would paint new ordered Porsche Any color the buyer wanted with some limits. This non-Porsche color was usually designated as “099” or later as L99 on the paperwork, but the Paint Tag would always and only be stamped with the actual Porsche factory color. Also you can always get a shop to analyze the color to try and match, authorized P shop would have color data.
Lastly, also suspect if your Kunstharzlack tag may even be a replica replacement which are available. . Maybe a typo? Post a picture here and/or search for what an original tag looks like, identifiable by type style of the stamping and rivets and compare with yours. (I’d advise NOT to remove the Kunstharzlack tag!)
A Better location to find original preserved paint in behind the dash gauges and under the carpet, oh and post a pic too.. someone will eventually chime in!
Some of the dual coloring you’re seeing (orangey-brown) could be light undercoats that’s applied before final top coat. Probably your original is in the Brown family.
Here’s another link to get an idea of paint codes :

https://www.porscheknowledge.com/colour-codes-by-year/

[grimmy2016]

Originally Posted by roblav

I seriously doubt your 1977 911 was made in East Germany.

Yep. Youre right. Fixed it to match western.

[grimmy2016]

Originally Posted by EC900

I also have a 77S. Mine was a “Paint-to-Sample” color option that was not offered in 1977. I think you may have the same option. I tried looking up a few sites out of curiosity but as you have, I found nothing. It may take a bit more digging, and btw, did you try searching Rennbow.org?

https://www.rennbow.org/porsche-colors

Any way, if your 77 was a paint to sample it would be a color that obviously wasn’t offered, it may be an old 4-digit code that is not easily found using in your situation, the 3-digit code of 172. This caused some confusion, I’m not sure when Porsche converted older paint codes. It could very well be a color for a vintage 356 or a VW for that matter that the original purchaser was fond of at the time. For instance, my 77 is #018-9-2 (stamped tag #) last available from the factory offerings in 1972 as #6809. If your 77 was not necessarily a Porsche factory color, I would know if they would apply a “172” paint color…say if the original owner wanted the color to match his ‘55 Austin Healy. Porsche would paint new ordered Porsche Any color the buyer wanted with some limits. This non-Porsche color was usually designated as “099” or later as L99 on the paperwork, but the Paint Tag would always and only be stamped with the actual Porsche factory color. Also you can always get a shop to analyze the color to try and match, authorized P shop would have color data.
Lastly, also suspect if your Kunstharzlack tag may even be a replica replacement which are available. . Maybe a typo? Post a picture here and/or search for what an original tag looks like, identifiable by type style of the stamping and rivets and compare with yours. (I’d advise NOT to remove the Kunstharzlack tag!)
A Better location to find original preserved paint in behind the dash gauges and under the carpet, oh and post a pic too.. someone will eventually chime in!
Some of the dual coloring you’re seeing (orangey-brown) could be light undercoats that’s applied before final top coat. Probably your original is in the Brown family.
Here’s another link to get an idea of paint codes :

https://www.porscheknowledge.com/colour-codes-by-year/

I did check Rennbow and nothing with that number came up in the years before or after for Porsche. I've attached an image of the plate. The orange color on the left side is what I also see in the frunk and engine compartment in places.

[djpateman]

The code 172 is previously known to me, but no name has been attached. It is in the yellow/orange/gold/off white family of shades. This is almost certainly a special-order request, but not a true paint-to-sample. I'd like to know your VIN to add it to my research file. It would help to know that yours is not the only example.

[jac1976]

Might contact one of the previous owners…

Can I get some help determining if my car is numbers matching?

[EC900]

Your Tag looks authentic and never removed. The stamping is a bit deeper set than on my 77 with similar type style and spacing. Repro’s are quite different.

Back to the topic of Paint-To-Sample….
I pulled up a Pantone color chart and found this…
https://www.pantone.com/connect/172-CP

A YouTuber posted a Porsche paint color info video, said Porsche would “consider” odd color scheme and the process wasn’t simply “paint mine ‘this’ color” because of their proprietary colors. Using a “Pantone color” would be plausible for Porsche but ‘172’ sure looks like a number of their common oranges incl Gulf 019 and Tangerine 018…and you’re seeing brown metallic (Btw, Porsche did the paint code conversion in 1972 switching from 4 digit to 3 digit codes.) The base coat on orange topcoat is yellow as on my PTS and is obvious in areas of the floor, dash, trunk and even on chips in the top coat or wear marks along some edges. My color is mostly original though.

You next clue will be pulling out one of the gauges or clock, under the carpet center tunnel, and if the repaint wasn’t through..under the glued down black vinyl door sill. Plenty of original color in these areas to compare with colors on the web. Take a look at my tunnel, note the yellow along side by shifter.

[jac1976]

Might also reach out to this guy and ask how his tag reads…

https://www.excellence-mag.com/issues/285/articles/the-perfectionist

[EC900]

I think Grimmy has a bit of a task to determine his PTS actual color and why the mystery number is on the tag, question would be if the Factory used Herberts paint with a Pantone formulation to match the original customer sample request rather than stocked Porsche palettes…if that was possible back in 1977.
Pantone being a universal color communication between a 3 parties (customer/painter/paint mfg) in the process, someone had to initiate the color choice and agree on the number. It’s like in house paint, a Benjamin Moore color will differ from a Sherwin Williams color or a Valspar in their respective fan deck color charts even though they might all be a universal white hue.
Porsche using 3 different paint manufacturers each having their own specs and formulations - for Porsche stock colors. Certain factories known to use only certain paint colors.
Everything else color wise had to be proprietary, hence the referral to Pantone - even though these colors are in sync with every other color band under various manufacturer brands including the Porsche palette and vanity paint color names.

Maybe a PCA tech query can answer if Porsche would stamp a paint tag with a Pantone color chart number or give further depth as to the 172 reference on the tag.

[jac1976]

I believe PTS simply indicates that the color was not offered for that model year. It could be a paint to match, a Porsche color offered on another model or from another year. It certainly will be a task. Nevertheless, seeking out cars from the same year with colors believed to match would be a start. I believe the OP’s car may be the one I linked to from 2019 and that color appears (again, it could be anything) to be Copper Metallic. The 2nd link is to a verified Copper Metallic 1977, the same year as the OP’s. If they are in fact the same color, I would assume the paint tag would be the same.

[grimmy2016]

@jac1976 I can confirm your post from 2019 is indeed my car based on the VIN. I'd love to chat with you maybe offline about anything you know on this car. I bought it from a dealer in Maryland. He said he bought it from a guy who started a conversion and then decided he wanted a different car.

[jac1976]

Originally Posted by grimmy2016

@jac1976 I can confirm your post from 2019 is indeed my car based on the VIN. I'd love to chat with you maybe offline about anything you know on this car. I bought it from a dealer in Maryland. He said he bought it from a guy who started a conversion and then decided he wanted a different car.

To be clear, I know nothing of the car other than the post that I linked to.