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Can I get some help determining if my car is numbers matching?

From what I can tell, all is good. I bought the car last week, got a good deal so I didn't really car about the numbers, but now I want to flip it to Mecum Auctions, so if IS numbers matching I want to say so!

The VIN matches between the A Pillar and Frunk.




The car is a 1977 911S Coupe. I believe the engine code and engine type are fine.



On the type code, I see 911/85 (or 35), but can't find reference to either...



I can't find information on the Transmission Code - any help there?



Finally, the paint code... I can NOT find any reference to the paint code that I see at the door jamb in front of the drivers door. Can't find color "172-9-3" anywhere I search... Lil' help?


Last edited by mcphill; 05-07-2019 at 07:15 PM..
Old 05-07-2019, 07:08 PM
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You won't be able to tell if that engine and transmission were those delivered with the car without a Certificate of Authenticity (or whatever they call them now) from PCNA. What you can tell is that you have the correct types. Engine 911/85 and gearbox type 911/61 are correct for a USA 1977. And the engine serial number is in the right range.

Incidentally, the 12 after the gearbox type indicates it came from the factory with an LSD.

Only thing I can find regarding paint code 172 is Mercedes Anthracite Grey. What color is the car (although the paint overlap on the paint tag suggests a repaint)?

Mark
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Old 05-07-2019, 08:01 PM
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It is definitely a good quality respray on the car now:







Old 05-07-2019, 09:33 PM
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another matching number is under the right knee pad;-)
Ivan
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Old 05-07-2019, 10:13 PM
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another matching number is under the right knee pad;-)
Ivan
Yeah but he wonít necessarily be able to tie that to anything without a kardex as itís a unique build number
Old 05-08-2019, 05:14 AM
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that is true ..just the info i meant;-) he`s got what he`s got ;-)

Ivan
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Old 05-08-2019, 05:47 AM
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"Numbers matching" on a 911 is totally different than old American iron. On old American cars the parts like the starter, brakes, alternator, water pump, and so on were also numbered and date code stamped.

All that really matters is does it have the correct engine and transmission, and does that really matter if they work as designed? Obviously the chassis numbers all need to be the same or the car was cut up in the past and that can be real bad. But if the VIN on the chassis parts match the title, the rest really don't really much matter.

In the old days of American muscle cars the engine choice was huge, and ranged from a pedestrian 6 cylinder to monster high performance V8s in the same model of car. Now all the old Muscle cars seem to have the high performance engine, and it did not come that way and the "real" one are more rare.

Like turning a 911 L into a S clone, a real S is more desired, and the VIN will tell you what is was delivered as.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:45 AM
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I have asked the blind scribes at Porsche for the "PPS". I'm surprised I don't "get to" send and receive the request via messenger pigeon, but it's close! I have to FAX the request in (that's right, that solid 1970's technology that NO ONE used any more!), and in 4-6 WEEKS!!! they will mail, as in USPS, the build sheets. Wow. What a technological wonder, Porsche! I was groaning and *****ing to the guy at PNA about the process, and he totally agreed, but was helpless to do anything. And why can't a dealer do the request for me? No, they send me to PNA, and they send me to a link. Customer service? Not so much... Can't email, text, or message anything in, and the 5 minutes to takes photos and email them back will take 4-6 WEEKS to come by snail mail instead!!! Obviously won't arrive in time for the auction in 8 days, but I am interested in the answers anyway, and it's only $110.
Old 05-09-2019, 09:45 PM
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I'm surprised there's no one here bashing the new member flipper.....
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Old 05-10-2019, 04:59 AM
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Paint looks to be Copper Metallic originally.
Old 05-10-2019, 10:06 AM
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Meh....if the fella can make a quick buck, cool. He, not Mecum, is taking the risk on the trade. Besides, if he gets it sold via auction, middie owners will have a new value data point. Everybody wins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBAtarga View Post
I'm surprised there's no one here bashing the new member flipper.....
Old 05-10-2019, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
Meh....if the fella can make a quick buck, cool. He, not Mecum, is taking the risk on the trade. Besides, if he gets it sold via auction, middie owners will have a new value data point. Everybody wins.
I originally blew off this post for that reason.

To the OP, please give us a link to the Auction Posting, and follow up with your results.

FWIW, What is under the new paint is what matters to the Porsche cognoscenti. If you have someone who is an EXPERT on aircooled 911s give you a PPI you may be ahead of the game. Or if there is, or was rust, oh well.
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:58 AM
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..to think how he could stir things up with posting his purchase price vs. the auction results...

paint -code: is it metallic gold? hmm... Should be easy enough to find a paint-code document online
not knowing the original color, could mean leaving $ 2000 on the table if it was a super rare / desirable color
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Last edited by Kraftwerk; 05-13-2019 at 07:36 AM..
Old 05-11-2019, 09:06 PM
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Am I the only one wondering why the heck you would you put your Porsche in a bunch of nasty weeds for the photo shoot? And why would you drive it under a rickety old green house?

Is this what an "artistic shot" looks like?
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:17 AM
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Only Porsche can verify originality if you want to sell it as numbers matching. They offer Porsche Production Specifications(PPS), but does not seem to verify engine and transmission serial numbers. What you really need is the Classic Technical Certificate(CTC). This requires a visit to a Porsche dealership that is authorized to have a technician verify serial numbers.
https://www.porsche.com/usa/accessoriesandservices/porscheservice/vehicleinformation/
Value wise, non original paint is one problem. Original color was likely what can be seen above the trunk Vin stamp on the smugglers box cover, and in the door pillar above the paint tag, showing under the light switch. Tail also is questionable. Engine is in range. Type 911/85 would be correct for US 911S. By 1977 all 911's were S type. Trans would most likely have been a 915/61 type, LSD only can be verified with a CTC. Might have been added later and then stamped with the 12.
Trying to sell it as numbers matching without documentation can cause a lot of problems.
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Old 05-12-2019, 08:39 AM
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Clearly this is the new frontier- a genuine greenhouse find.
Old 05-18-2019, 05:06 PM
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