Engine tin, console & saddle recoat

[Discseven]

Parts are from my ‘85. Existing coating seems original—tan primer + top coat. Tried to find out what paint the factory used for this metal but came up with zip. Standing condition...









Have a good look at this console saddle.

My addiction to Cerakote is tough to kick. Finish is beautiful. Hard. Down side for anyone wanting an air-cure, semi-gloss that’s black-black… Cerakote doesn’t cut it. Their air-cure line products are distinctly “charcoal black”...



Black Velvet and Glacier Black are very close to each other in terms of their “black” and semi-gloss finish. Above, lighter part is Targa cap wearing Black Velvet. Test card is SprayMax combo of primer + high gloss black + clear satin (think they now call this “Semi Matte.”) Is 2K stuff. Clear coating was intentionally done to quench the high gloss to a semi-gloss. (Targa cap was stripped of Cerakote and this “combo” applied.) For parts in hand, am after a simpler, “direct to metal” coating that is a black-black semi-gloss. Air-brush is the way to go for me as I’ll be painting on condo’s balcony. Alternative, HVLP, puts out excessive overspray. Makes setting up for a balcony shoot complicated. Air-brush has minimal overspray. Is more easily managed.

For a direct to metal, heat & chemical resistant coating, am thinking acrylic epoxy. By “chem resistant,” am referring to anything akin to Brake Cleaner. Not that I douse my engine with the stuff but should this sort of chem ever finds its way near or on the engine, I don’t want to worry in the least about fooking up these parts.

On the menu at the moment: Summit Racing’s “Chassis Shield Semi-Gloss Black.” Would greatly appreciate pro-con input if you have experience with this coating.




Stripping approach began with my thinking to use Cerakote. And so all the parts are getting hit with aluminum oxide. Have since convinced myself to pass on Cerakote (because of the air-cure “charcoal-black” situation.) Depending on the final coating used, the labor going into this blast-prep may be a monumental waste of time! Having started in blast-mode, am now inclined finish it—so all the metal has the same profile.

Console saddle was coming unglued. For ‘85, used part was available for $450. New… probably very amusing $$$s. Welding both sides cost $150. Is a repair price worth celebrating given price tag for carnage that was averted. If I may suggest, this is a call for eyeballs on parts that keep the engine in place. Candidly, I’d never have looked carefully at this part when installed—lower area where crack is, that’s NOT easily visible without a light & mirror or endoscope. Had saddle let go, I don’t believe engine would escape the bay. But depending on how low a car sits, it’s possible the case would drag-to-ruin. Perhaps the fan housing will save the day—by hanging up on the chassis’ rear cross-member. Maybe not. Is total speculation.

Blasting continues. Any comments on the Summit Racing coating would be appreciated.

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[David Inc.]

I'd say take caution when blasting the engine tin. I had mine blasted recently and it blew a hole through a spot in the crease just next to the right side chain housing. I looked online and saw almost all of the used ones available had holes in the same place.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by David Inc.

I'd say take caution when blasting the engine tin. I had mine blasted recently and it blew a hole through a spot in the crease just next to the right side chain housing. I looked online and saw almost all of the used ones available had holes in the same place.

Caution noted David. Appreciate that. While called "tin," and not sure why, perhaps the original stuff was, my parts are steel. To blast a hole in this material would take far more gusto than my small compressor could ever muster. Perhaps with a commercial blaster, holes could be punched through this steel. (I've bead blasted cylinder heads and that aluminum evaporates very quickly if the gun is not kept moving.)
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[Discseven]

Reviews for Summit’s “Chassis Shield Semi-Gloss Black” repeat a common theme. And that is the finish is too glossy to be a “semi-gloss.” Summit also has a Satin product. Similar review comments for that… “too glossy to be satin.” Guy who posted pic above with his review… Satin finish is at right. He supposedly added 5% reducer to achieve the result at left. Gloss reduction makes it look like Cerakote's Black Velvet. Was also a review indicating the gloss settling back after a few days of curing. Conclusion = no clear conclusion on Summit’s Chassis Shield blacks.

Just spoke with Summit’s Catrina. Long story short, she’s sending me a paint chip chart. Claim is: that “chart accurately represents their different cured blacks & finishes.” ($19 and change including shipping. Ground from Georgia. Should arrive by Friday.)
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[Discseven]

Just received Summit's color chip catalogue. Discussion with their agent last week was specifically about the black and finish of their "Chassis Shield" satin product. Agent advised me to get (buy) their chip catalogue for accurate reference to these blacks. Catalogue received doesn't include any Chassis Shield color chips.

Will be chatting with Catrina on Monday. EDIT: Monday conversation with Summit concluded with there being no color chip catalogue showing the color & finish of their Chassis Shield paints. They refunded my catalogue cost and there's no need to return the catalogue they sent me.

Catalogue shows a "Hot Rod Black Satin"...



Nice. Deep black. Genuine satin. Unfortunately I want a DTM coating. This product wants a primer. Is also gallon sized for $102. Chassis Shield is qt sized for $45.

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[ChrisHamilton]

Paint products from Summit, Eastwood and the like are cheap low quality products. Sorry if that offends anyone but it is the truth.

SPI Black Epoxy would give you a satin sheen. It is designed for bare metal and is a very high quality product. SPI products were used by RM Restorations on the 2015 Pebble Beach Best of Show winner. They are also a great value and top level Tech Support available 7 days a week. They also have a Forum where you can ask any paint, body metal related question and get answers from Professionals in the industry.

SPI also makes a Urethane satin black that you can control the amount of gloss by the amount of product to activator ratio. 4:1 gives a nice sheen 6:1 is almost perfectly flat.

https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/epoxy-primer

Southern Polyurethanes Forum

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by ChrisHamilton

Paint products from Summit, Eastwood and the like are cheap low quality products. Sorry if that offends anyone but it is the truth.

SPI Black Epoxy would give you a satin sheen. It is designed for bare metal and is a very high quality product. SPI products were used by RM Restorations on the 2015 Pebble Beach Best of Show winner. They are also a great value and top level Tech Support available 7 days a week. They also have a Forum where you can ask any paint, body metal related question and get answers from Professionals in the industry.

SPI also makes a Urethane satin black that you can control the amount of gloss by the amount of product to activator ratio. 4:1 gives a nice sheen 6:1 is almost perfectly flat.

https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/epoxy-primer

Southern Polyurethanes Forum

Chris... thank you for SPI contact and forum link. I read through some threads and believe you are in there. (I'd like to know what you eat for breakfast? ) Summit coatings I've never used. Have used an Eastwood product. Not a fond memory. Job had to be done entirely over (with Cerakote.) Exactly what went wrong with the Eastwood path is speculative so am not prepared to slam their product. Will post pics of that project for the benefit of anyone heading down this path.

I'll be calling SPI Monday morning to discuss their products.





Eastwood Diamond Clear - 3 coats applied per spec.


A few months afterwards.


Aluminum oxide blasted.


Cerakote C-series. Was done in 2020. Air-brush applied. 2 coats. Coating looks the same now as when first applied. Blasting and complete prep for Cerakote is time consuming but finished surface is both hard/tough & beautiful. Is also heat & chemical resistant.
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[tperazzo]

Hi Karl,
I'm a fan of industrial Rust-Oleum. I buy the gloss black and flat black in quart size. You can dial the gloss how you want, but here's my recipe. The key is the enamel hardener. It increases chemical resistance and durability.

2 parts gloss
1 part flat
Reduce with acetone for spraying. I use 1.4 tip. 5 parts paint 2 parts reducer
.3 parts hardener.
It's affordable, direct to metal, and way better than the spray can stuff.
Let me know if you need links?
Tom

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by tperazzo

Hi Karl,
I'm a fan of industrial Rust-Oleum. I buy the gloss black and flat black in quart size. You can dial the gloss how you want, but here's my recipe. The key is the enamel hardener. It increases chemical resistance and durability.

2 parts gloss
1 part flat
Reduce with acetone for spraying. I use 1.4 tip. 5 parts paint 2 parts reducer
.3 parts hardener.
It's affordable, direct to metal, and way better than the spray can stuff.
Let me know if you need links?
Tom

Tom... I found the industrial gloss (7779502) and flat (7776.) It appears any enamel hardener will work... is that correct? Do you have a preference? Are you measuring by volume or weight?

Thanks for your recommendation & recipe.
.

[porschyard]

Karl the original color is Satin black, any time I have the tin powder coated I request Satin and have always been happy with the finish.
Richard

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by porschyard

Karl the original color is Satin black, any time I have the tin powder coated I request Satin and have always been happy with the finish.
Richard

Rich... with you, but. You know I'm fond of the diy journey (come what may.) Having made a bad choice on my Targa cap and redoing it, am approaching this with a bit more thought. We'll see if I get it right with the first shot.
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[Discseven]

Notes from discussion just had with SPI, spoke with Logan. Advised him use of coating being on parts surrounding Porsche 911 engine. Coating profile wanted: 250-300 dF* heat resistance + chemical (Brake Cleaner) resistance, direct to metal (DTM), black-black semi-gloss / satin finish that's very hard.

Recommended product per Logan: 6620-4 black epoxy primer. 6700-4 hardener. 1:1 ratio. Size = Quarts. Is DTM and although this is a "primer," there's NO topcoat to apply.

Cost: $105.22 for both epoxy + hardner. (End up with 1/2 gallon)

Application: 3 coats

Flash: 15-20 minutes apart. (Warmer the ambient, the quicker the flash.)

Cure: Air. Advised putting in direct sun to expedite final gas out. Can handle in 6-8 hours. If installing / putting nuts & bolts on surface, wait another day.

To reduce sheen: Use 860-1. Is "Fast Reducer." (Don't use too much as this weakens the coating. 5% max.) ONLY USE THIS IN FINAL COAT.

To increase sheen: Can apply their clear top coat but WILL NO LONGER BE heat & chem resistant.

SPI: 706.781.2220 Logan, Al, Barry (owner)
Miami distributer: 886.383.3013

* My temp estimate for these parts. I may be wrong.
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[tperazzo]

Originally Posted by Discseven

Tom... I found the industrial gloss (7779502) and flat (7776.) It appears any enamel hardener will work... is that correct? Do you have a preference? Are you measuring by volume or weight?

Thanks for your recommendation & recipe.
.

Here's the hardener that I use, but anything that says enamel hardener will work.

https://amzn.to/3PYvcN8

I mix by volume. For small jobs I use small dixie cups and throw them away.

SPI epoxy primer is also a very good product and I've used it extensively. The only drawback with their epoxy primer is that its sensitive to how you spray it because it likes to crater. (small fish eye dimples). It takes some practice to get a smooth finish, but very doable. The plus is that the adhesion is very good and its tough!

[Discseven]

Notes from discussion just had with Cerakote. Questioned if it was possible to use a high gloss H-series and not bake to cure it, and end up with a satin finish that was fully cured? Per Cerakote, that does NOT work. Their H-series MUST be baked to cure. Asked if there was any way of modifying their Black Velvet with a "darkening agent" to make it a blacker-black? No. Is possible to add Jet Black to make it darker but then Black Velvet moves away from its satin finish towards a matte/flat.
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[Discseven]

Originally Posted by tperazzo

Here's the hardener that I use, but anything that says enamel hardener will work.

https://amzn.to/3PYvcN8

I mix by volume. For small jobs I use small dixie cups and throw them away.

SPI epoxy primer is also a very good product and I've used it extensively. The only drawback with their epoxy primer is that its sensitive to how you spray it because it likes to crater. (small fish eye dimples). It takes some practice to get a smooth finish, but very doable. The plus is that the adhesion is very good and its tough!

Thanks for hardener ref Tom. And for supporting notes on SPI.


.

[porschyard]

Originally Posted by Discseven

Rich... with you, but. You know I'm fond of the diy journey (come what may.) Having made a bad choice on my Targa cap and redoing it, am approaching this with a bit more thought. We'll see if I get it right with the first shot.
.

Yes Karl and sometimes to a fault (but a good fault)

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by porschyard

Yes Karl and sometimes to a fault (but a good fault)

HA!!! I feel the luv!
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[Discseven]

Update... am still blasting parts. Is a slow process given my setup!
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[Discseven]

Small parts are done...



This side "skirt" represents 2 3/4 hr blasting (both sides) with my setup. Am using 2.5 gal., 150psi max, 2.0 scfm at 90 psi compressor. Great for small nuts & bolts stuff. Not so good for this project. Too much ground to cover here. This sort of project wants continuous 100 psi hitting the gun. Think this would take 40 minutes with that. Is what it is. And am in no rush.




Skinning steel and letting it sit around for a while before applying a finish-coat... tricky business. Oxidation. Am inclined to believe it starts immediately. Going POR15 chem route, no worries. Being relentlessly undecided on what coating path to take, all this metal is getting shot with WD40. It can sit bagged until a coating decision is made. Down side here: I'll have to get oil out of the metal before finish-coating. Would be smart to finish-coat these individual parts as I'm done blasting each of them. That's not easily doable given the limitations of my "shop."

[Discseven]

Am looking at these parts to decide how to approach degreasing, then baking, then painting them. Posting pics so anyone thinking about dealing with these bits can see the count.

Painting them on my condo balcony is a program that calls for some thinking through. Have set up an enclosed paint booth before. That expedition was to achieve a debris-free finish on my Targa cap. That was accomplished but the booth---I went through 3 versions of it---was a production of some magnitude. Am not gunning for a flawless finish with these parts so shooting them open air on dry, calm days is very appealing. Overspray on my GF's plants & flowers and balcony stuff won't work. And so overthinking and arriving at a clear tactical plan is in progress.

Some of these bits don't have holes as needed for thin wire suspension. Will drill those in. Missing in pics is the long engine tin and console. I plan to blast those and immediately paint them as they won't fit in my oven---so can't bake the WD40 out of them as is possible with all the bits in the pics.

My heads and rods were botched by the machine shop working on them so they're going to another shop that specializes in Porsche. Took a stab at saving some money and that turned around and gutted me. (Spoke with Ollies and they were backed up for 4 weeks---probably means 6-8 weeks. Another shop wanted 12 weeks.) My snail's pace at processing this tin, console & saddle is aligned with the pace of everything else happening so far with my engine. Have grown quite fond of my bike.
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