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-   -   Removing CIS (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1129091-removing-cis.html)

mike sampsel 12-02-2022 02:56 AM

Take a heavy gauge electrical wire you can wrap around the ball socket, leave ends to grab with a pliers and pull the socket straight off. Just remembered it worked for me.

David Inc. 12-02-2022 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wgirardot (Post 11861655)
try separating the ball and sock below the one shown in your picture, worked for me

Yeah do the one on the bellcrank side, for whatever reason it's easier. Big screwdriver jammed between the socket and the arm.

For the fuel lines, don't buy anything from these guys ( :) ) but their engine removal blog has some great photos.

https://blog.*******.com/how-to-remove-engine-gearbox-classic-air-cooled-porsche-911

the asterisks are FCP euro

joe912/62 12-02-2022 09:43 AM

Can I unthread the rod to separate it? Or do I need to cut it and replace.

David Inc. 12-02-2022 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe912/62 (Post 11862676)
Can I unthread the rod to separate it? Or do I need to cut it and replace.

Technically yes? Just pop the sucker off, man. Jam a big screwdriver in there, turn it and pry it off. So long as it doesn't have the little retaining wire in place it'll go with enough force.

ADDvanced 12-02-2022 09:59 AM

Pop it off. More power!

joe912/62 12-02-2022 10:22 AM

Must still have the clip inside because I'm bending the lever

David Inc. 12-02-2022 10:40 AM

Try this, then. Unbolt the throttle linkage mount from the engine, disconnect the looong throttle linkage down at the transmission bell crank, then pull the whole linkage assembly out with the airbox/throttle body. Once it's out you'll have more options and leverage to inspect it and pull it apart, then you can clean up, grease and reassemble while patting yourself on the back.

Actually, I'd suggest doing that anyway because the bushings in the throttle linkage bellcrank are more than likely in bad shape and need replacing. Easy job to do if you have it all apart.

joe912/62 12-02-2022 12:09 PM

Finally got it off. I was able to loosen the rod and undo the nut to release some of the tension on the ball cap and came off easily then.
Do I disconnect the fuel line to the accumulator and at the top of the fuel filter?

joe912/62 12-03-2022 12:38 PM

Finally got it off. Now to clean it all up and replace old parts.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1670103343.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1670103420.JPG

boyt911sc 12-03-2022 06:29 PM

Good Job........
 
Joe,

Congratulations! You have achieved your goal removing the complete CIS in situ. Time to move to the next level. Learn to drop the motor this time. Once you done an engine drop, you would realize why knowledgeable and experienced people prefer to remove the complete CIS on an engine stand.

People who had attempted to remove the complete CIS in situ have not done an engine drop before. And I don’t blame them for choosing to do it in situ. The fear and anxiety is too much to overcome for some people.

Just imagine installing the CIS unit back with the motor on an engine stand and sitting on a comfortable chair on wheels and finishing it after a few hours. Use your imagination how easy and wonderful to work on your motor if you had removed it........

Tony

mike sampsel 12-04-2022 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe912/62 (Post 11863589)

From your photos, looks like you went through the effort to remove those metal clips from the electrical plugs. Those plugs just pull off with the clips in place, maybe next time. Make darn sure you have all the clips and none went into the intake. They are magnetic and can be fished out. In fact, it might be wise to run a magnet in all the intakes for a good check.

joe912/62 12-04-2022 04:08 AM

I know it would have been easier to drop the engine to do this but I have a one car garage and live here in Montreal were the weather doesn't permit working outside in January. Got all the clips but broke the O2 sensor plug. It was already kind of loose. How hard is it to find that part?

rwest 12-04-2022 08:27 AM

Congratulations Joe!

When you get ready to start the car back up, you’ll need to set it back to factory baselines as likely things were adjusted to make it run with various vacuum leaks and other problems.

If you can’t find the procedures, let us know and either I or someone else can get you the settings.

hughc 12-04-2022 09:17 AM

[QUOTE= How hard is it to find that part?[/QUOTE]

Good luck, but I have seen on this forum where a member is making a nice replacement.

joe912/62 12-04-2022 10:13 AM

Thanks I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions.
How do I remove the injector caps? Do I need a special tool?

joe912/62 12-12-2022 04:28 PM

Trying to remove the oil cooler cover from the top, there are four bolts on top but the cover won't come off, is there any other bolts below to remove?
Thanks

ADDvanced 12-12-2022 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe912/62 (Post 11864337)
Thanks I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions.
How do I remove the injector caps? Do I need a special tool?

They're staked in place. Dremel w drum cylinder.

You should probably watch some of my videos on CIS refresh:

Teardown:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/4Oh2pmyp0Gs" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Go to 6:40 to remove the injector seats

Also, make SURE you rebuild your airbox, I'm guessing the factory screws holding it together are pulled out, I used nuts/bolts on mine instead to compress it together. Airbox rebuilding video:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QC2GBB7nYBw" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is reassembly of everything, how to mount new injector seats, plug the EGR port on the bottom of the intake, bunch of details this should help as well

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LNHasTH92Bg" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Sorry for spamming my channel but I think this will really help you out, Joe. Cheers!

joe912/62 12-12-2022 05:20 PM

I have watched your videos several times now and have found them very useful.
I'm referring to the grey plastic cover that you can see in the last photo of the engine bay I posted.
I think there's 2 from below that also hold the engine tin.

David Inc. 12-13-2022 07:33 AM

Yep, there are two bolts on the rear face of the engine that hold the engine tin and the cover to the back side of the head. You should be able to reach them from underneath.

joe912/62 12-13-2022 07:58 AM

I did have a look and there are 2 bolt, thanks.

joe912/62 12-21-2022 12:49 PM

Triangle of death done
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1671659291.JPG

mike sampsel 12-21-2022 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe912/62 (Post 11878110)

You might want to coat the oil light sender in JB weld

joe912/62 12-21-2022 02:52 PM

What type of JB weld, around the brown area?

mike sampsel 12-22-2022 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe912/62 (Post 11878195)
What type of JB weld, around the brown area?

Right, circle to cover around the plastic area which can crack and leak. I use the black-and-white-two-tube stuff, (the original) good to 500 degrees I think their strongest. You might need another washer if you remove your sender to coat it good.

Steve F 12-22-2022 03:15 AM

I wrapped blue tape around the hex portion and then filled it in with JB Weld. Peeled the tape off later and it looked really nice after:<)

na2ub 12-26-2022 10:16 PM

Where does the other end of the vacuum hose, that goes down into the rear crossmember (in the pictures above) go? I removed a bunch of stuff, including CIS, and that hose was disconnected. I pulled it out of the hole in the crossmember to find it just dead-ends, and is attached to nothing.

Thanks in advance.

Schulisco 12-27-2022 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by na2ub (Post 11881596)
Where does the other end of the vacuum hose, that goes down into the rear crossmember (in the pictures above) go? I removed a bunch of stuff, including CIS, and that hose was disconnected. I pulled it out of the hole in the crossmember to find it just dead-ends, and is attached to nothing.

One of the oil tank breather lines goes from the crankcase breather plate to the oil tank. The another one goes to the rubber intake boot.

https://i.imgur.com/x0mrn7Z.jpg

https://bit.ly/3FVeQlm

Thomas

joe912/62 12-27-2022 06:37 AM

Here's my CIS ready to go in. I left runners 1 and 4 for easier access to some bolts.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1672155322.JPG

na2ub 12-27-2022 06:45 AM

This one. Mine was also cable tied. When i removed the tie and pulled it just came out of the crossmember. I assumed it was an old hack, until i saw it here. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1672155928.jpg

joe912/62 12-27-2022 07:05 AM

I can have a look on under my car to see if I can see were it terminates

na2ub 12-27-2022 07:59 AM

If yours is like mine, it terminates about 4" into that crossmember, to nothing. Question is, where does the other end of the hose go. Cruise control?

joe912/62 12-28-2022 11:14 AM

Can I change the upper valve gasket without draining the oil?
Maybe easier without the CIS

rwest 12-28-2022 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by na2ub (Post 11881787)
If yours is like mine, it terminates about 4" into that crossmember, to nothing. Question is, where does the other end of the hose go. Cruise control?

If memory serves, that’s exactly what it is, the atmosphere air end to the cruise control.

stevie 77 930 12-29-2022 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe912/62 (Post 11882750)
Can I change the upper valve gasket without draining the oil?
Maybe easier without the CIS

Yes, all of the oil drains to the bottom of the engine, and you might even want to adjust the intake valves while you're at it.

Funracer 12-30-2022 07:01 AM

Another “while you have it out”. My engine is back in the car after being on the engine stand all of 2021. Last weekend I decided I needed to finally verify my CSV was in fact spraying fuel out of it.
In the year the motor was on the stand I removed it to put in new O rings but never tested for spray function. Anyway doing it with the CIS back in the car is not fun. Took me an hour and a half to remove it and probably 4 hours to reinstall using lights and mirrors. With the CIS on the bench it would take only a few minutes. I would never do it in situ again. Also check to see that you have the correct mounting flange. There are threads with pictures that show the difference between flanges.

PeteKz 01-05-2023 10:27 AM

I think I mentioned this awhile back, but I'll say it again since you're almost done. Consider removing the idle air valve and decel valve and associated plumbing. Without that stuff in the way, you can reach the parts in the TOD much more easily. When I reinstalled my rebuilt engine a year ago, I forgot to fully tighten the oil pressure switch. Of course, I had a seep of oil down the top of the engine, etc. I was able to easily put a mirror back there, see that it was coming from the switch, and then remove it, check it, reinstall it, and tighten it, WITHOUT futzing with the CIS. Now, my 1973.5 car has a hand throttle, so I can just set that for a few minutes to let the engine warm up. Otherwise, you have to keep your foot on the gas to hold the RPM up for a minute or two, or start driving it immediately. IMO, it's worth the tradeoff.

joe912/62 01-05-2023 10:37 AM

Everything is back in now, had a fuel leak from the cold start valve but all tighten up now and no leaks.

joe912/62 01-06-2023 12:20 PM

So I tried to start the car, I haven't received the fuel pressure tester I ordered yet and was a bit inpatient. I also put in new plugs wires cap and rotor. I think I installed the plug wires in the right position on the cap. When I start the car the car rpm surges and back fires and shuts down.
I know I should check the fuel pressure before but could my wires be in the wrong position?
Is there any adjustments to the throttle position micro switch which needs to be adjusted?

mike sampsel 01-07-2023 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe912/62 (Post 11890167)
So I tried to start the car, I haven't received the fuel pressure tester I ordered yet and was a bit inpatient. I also put in new plugs wires cap and rotor. I think I installed the plug wires in the right position on the cap. When I start the car the car rpm surges and back fires and shuts down.
I know I should check the fuel pressure before but could my wires be in the wrong position?
Is there any adjustments to the throttle position micro switch which needs to be adjusted?

You can check your wires via firing order, rotating CCW from number 1 wire. Once the order is verified, number one is at the notch on the dizzy. Or around 3 o’clock.

Sometimes sputter and BF can occur until the lines get all primed.

mike sampsel 01-07-2023 05:41 AM

After wires verified, I’ve primed by (air cleaner off) lift the CIS plunger slightly with key on, as soon as you hear fuel squirting in the injectors let go of plate plunger.

Wetting down the cylinders with gas not great. If your car has sat a long time you might crank a while to get oil pressure. You should pull the CDS plug to do this. Although I’ve done it with the fuel pump relay out.


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