Removing CIS
 

Is it possible to remove the CIS on 3.0 SC without dropping the engine?

Yes. It’s not super easy and expect to use a lot if not all the sweat words and get some bruises, but it can most certainly be done in under an hour.

I find it necessary to do a partial drop (loosen rear motor mounts and drop the rear of the motor a couple inches) to get my CIS off my 2.7 while the engine is still in the car. It's tricky to get to all the bolts without a wide array of end wrenches / sockets / crows-foot wrenches.

Raise the rear wheels to save your back...

I removed the CIS on my 3.0SC without removing the engine.

I think it took me close to eight hours between the stuck bolts and the "what is holding this in, I thought I removed everything" and the "we'll just bend this out of the way" and the "WTF is all this mess back here? I have to remove that too!?" and... It would have been MUCH quicker if I had removed the engine. A skilled and experienced mechanic working on a car in mint condition MAY be able to remove it in an hour, but for your average Joe, I'd schedule a full day. I know I spent well over an hour on a single bolt for the WUR and ended up Dremmelling it out.

Oh, and there's zero chance I'd even attempt to put it back in while the engine is in the car. No sir, no way.

Partial engine drop makes this much easier. Do a search as there are a few items that need to be addressed like disconnecting the shift coupler before you actually lower the engine. And yes, raising the rear wheels saves a lot of back strain.

I did it in under an hour. If not all that difficult. Taking things apart is relatively easy, it’s putting them back together that’s complicated. If you were trying to keep the CIS in working condition and perfect then it becomes really difficult because you’re trying not to stress any of the connections or care any of the rubber hoses, etc. But if you are replacing it with another induction system and you can sacrifice things it’s much easier.

Lots of swivels and extensions for your socket set will be a godsend.

Where to begin?

CIS Removal In Situ...........
 

Joe,

You could remove all the CIS components in situ. Meaning no need to do a partial drop. The removal process is easy and straight forward with the motor installed. But installation is a completely different scenario. Since this will be your first time, just take your time. The trick is having the right tools like flex 13-mm socket/s, forceps, magnetic pick-up tools, inspection mirror, etc.

I will not even think of doing this project without these tools:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1667177856.jpg

The removal process could be done in so many ways. But if you start the removal of components like fuel lines, WUR, AAR, blower, snorkel, air filter, etc. you make more space to work around. Take as many pictures and write notes because you will be surprised how good is your memory when you need it.

I like to start removing intake runners 1-2-3 first because the intake runner boots steel bands are more accessible than 4-5-6 intake runners. Cover the intake ports and account for all the nuts and washers from the 6 intake runners. Do not over look this simple precaution because it would save you from having a bent valve or worse.

Tony

Joe,

You don’t say if you plan on putting it back on or not?

Be ready to capture any residual fuel when you undo the lines.

Follow Tony’s advice with lots of pictures and account for all parts and get the intake ports taped over as soon as possible.

There is a 13mm nut holding the air box on from the back and at the bottom to look for.

Rutager

Yes I was planning to put it back

Why are you removing it?

What the heck. It takes me half an hour to get the thing off with the engine on a stand. How are people doing it in situ in an hour?

If there is no video, it took longer than 1 hr. ;). Takes me 10-15 minutes to get the car in the air on jack stands. Then another 20 to find all the tools. Then the lost spring off runner to cyl #2 ... and on and on ...

Of course they likely have all done it before too. I'm still waiting for the 10 minute world record claim. Might be possible with a small team of trained mechanics, sorta like a pit stop at Lemons!

And then there is the install, getting all those intake runners to fit is a grad treat in SITU, especially if one changed out the rubber connectors from air box to the runners ask me how I know :mad:. If your under 40 it's a lot less hard on the back too.

Yeah those runners are a chore, I was much happier replacing those on a bench.

The thing that got me is that some previous owner down the line had done CIS work and had put the runners back together with the hose clamps pointing down against the fan shroud. Down. Down!!!

There were a few other instances on the car where that happened--someone put a thing back together on a bench without considering how it would work once on the car.

I replaced the CIS with carbs on my 2.7 over the summer. I took me 3 hours to get the CIS off in undamaged condition with the motor in. There's plenty of room to get all the parts out, you just have to be conscious of the order they come out.

Once you have to parts out, you'll likely find that all the lines, fuel, vacuum, etc are brittle and need replacing. In my opinion, this is a good/cost effective time to switch to a different engine management system. That being said, I have a full working CIS boxed up (with adjustable WUR) if you need spare parts.

I'm with this guy

I re & Re'd mine with a partial drop and it can be done. My back wasnt the happiest when it was all over.

I did mine as well with a partial drop. The bolts on the number 6 intake are a bugger. Get a 12mm swivel socket or two or three... you may need to try a few different types to get one to work.

One of the most useful tools you’ll come across is a magnet stick- unless you’re extremely lucky you will drop washers, nuts and bolts in all sorts of inaccessible spots.

Assemble the works on a very flat surface to get all of the intakes lined up and line up the hose clamps so you can get a screwdriver on them when installed.

Practice chaining together multiple swear words in long sentences, this will come in very handy!

On my car, it seemed that every washer that rolled into an inaccessible spot was non magnetic. Ether stainless or aluminum. Im now proficient skewering washers with bent coat hangers and dental picks while doing Yoga over my engine.

Get a pair of those claw end cables- saved my butt many times.
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I may be wrong, but I thought the runner bolt nuts are 12 mm. So having the 12 mm !/4 inch socket is handy, get a set of 1/4 inch drive flex sockets.

Cheers

I think they might be stock, but mine were a 13mm head nylock and I replaced with 12mm head locking copper.

I guess it just depends on whatever somebody threw on in the past.

Intake fasteners.......
 

Mike,

The intake runner fasteners could be either 12, 13, or even 14 mm nuts. That’s the reason I have different flex sockets for this job. The OEM self-locking nuts are 12 mm, the 13 and 14 mm nuts are replacement fasteners. The 13-mm is the most common fasteners I find on these motors unless you still have the original fasteners (12-mm self-locking). Just use the appropriate tool.

Tony

So should I start with the runners ?

took my 90 minutes including jacking and i did it with a small partial drop , didnt even disconnect coupler, just did a few inches..
https://i.imgur.com/8pzOqkr.jpg

obviously start with all heater lines and blower motor and ducting , pull plug wires and then you will have a much clearer view of everything, fuel lines and sensor/ electrical lines linkages , then start undoing runners and see what holds you up.

If you do a partial drop, be sure to undo the coupler! Sometimes a partial drop can get away from you and if it goes farther than you want, you’ll be really glad you spent the extra “30 seconds” it takes to disconnect the shift coupler. Disconnect the appropriate wires too, check out partial drop threads for advice. May as well disconnect the line to the booster at the airbox too if your dropping, it has to come off anyway. It’s on the 1,2,3 side.

It’s only 4 screws and then a 4 mm Allen wrench. You’ll want a lengthy one to reach the coupler. Or, don’t disconnect the coupler and risk bending something expensive if your partial drop gets away from you.

If you can get the nuts off number 6 runner, without a partial drop you might not need one. Then you might beat Iceman’s 90 minute time ;)
You’ll need to pull your fuel injectors. They can be persnickety too, if they don’t just pull out easily, then a crows foot wrench (or an open end wrench) around the injector so you can use it to brace your leverage (screw driver) helps move the injector up.

Having done this removal and install both ways, there is no way I’ll ever do it again in SITU. However, dropping the engine and transmission does look formidable and once dropped you need to have a place to work on the engine.

Not sure what plugs iceman was talking about. Maybe the electrical plugs (there are four of these) to the WUR, CSV, AAV and the one to the plate near/behind the FD on the 4,5,6 side. These just pull off, and don’t loose those pesky clips, had one sneak into a cylinder, glad they are magnetic. Don’t overlook the nut holding the air-box to the engine plate at the front (towards the steering wheel) or the spring on number 2 runner.

Be sure to stuff clean rags into the open cylinders as soon as you can. And buy the way not all CIS removals are equal. You might have an “easy” year. Some years are too hard even for pros to remove in SITU. Maybe all SC’s are equal? Not sure, I recall reading mine was easy ‘78.

Oh, be sure to set your timer before you start ;)

yeah that's what i did , but left injectors in place and just pulled it all ..

Does having a 4 post lift make things easier? I mean not having to work bent over as much. If I manage to undo all the runners can it be pulled out through the trunk lid?

That was smart. I pulled my injectors because I wanted to change the o-rings and broken sleeves and for me, it’s a bit easier to pull the injectors with the runners firmly bolted.

Easier to get it to were your back is less strained than with Jack stands, you need to do some other disconnecting than just the runners, like wiring, a couple of vacuum lines and that nut in the front holding the airbox, then you can lift it out of the engine compartment.

Then you do a happy dance for good luck and lift the CIS beast up and out! Multiple dances required for the install ;)

How available are the hoses if I need to replace them?

Pelican sells all the sizes, just measure inside and outside diameters and look them up- they will be in mm.

Smart money is to replace them all- not much money in the long run.

Everything is available and not too expensive, but the vacuum manifold that connects to the intake boot and the auxiliary air valves is $$$ and hard to find. I've seen people suggest having them made if they need replacement.

you can talk about this all day and try to plan for every single eventuality , best thing is to just roll up your sleeves and get at it .

https://i.imgur.com/6RwnPRa.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KKLvpoC.jpg
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Your right it's just mustering up the courage to begin.
The car is running right now but the long winter is coming here to Montreal and would be a good project to work on during those long days.

I too wonder why. If there is troubleshooting needed, then I think that is best done in situ.

But in any case, if I needed to remove a CIS, I would do a partial engine drop and remove it as one piece. Then I would reinstall it as one piece. Ot is fairly remarkable how few things need to be disconnected for a partial engine drop. A couple of electrical plugs. A fuel connection. Shift coupler. And, I think, oil lines. throttle linkage.

Heck....the entire engine and tranny can come out rather quickly if you use a drill or air wrench to remove the CV bolts. I think Mr. Walker does it in about a half hour, probably. But then, he's a pro with all the right equipment and something close to 50 years experience.

Oh...and once you are in there, be sure to replace the o-ring in the Devil's Triangle that tends to fail and leak. Part of the engine oil system, near the engine-mounted oil cooler.

I don't see how doing a partial engine drop will give me more access to the back components.

If you can get the inside (towards the engine side) nut off runner #6 with the tools you have, then only the nut on the front of the air-box might wish for a partial drop (can't recall if this one is reachable without it, must be). All the other runner nuts can be easily reached in situ without a drop.

You will have more wrench position variability with a partial drop for number 6. Try to get the inside nut off of runner 6 without a partial. Once it's off, getting it back on is a challenge too, especially with the oil cooler shroud in place (IIRC).

Keep us posted. And good luck.

because its quicker to drop and have access than to constantly fight without access.
lose early ... get it out of the way and you will be much happier.