Ducktail Critique from an Industrial Design Perspective

[winders]

Originally Posted by ADDvanced

That "Improved Duck" is ugly as sin and I much prefer the "Original Duck". I bet that "Improved Duck" is less functional too....

[mepstein]

To me, one of the attractions of a duck tail is it looks purposeful and not smoothly integrated. It yells - Porsche race car. It looks genuine, not generic. The Singer duck looks like it’s trying not to offend anyone. Blah.

[ADDvanced]

Originally Posted by winders

That "Improved Duck" is ugly as sin and I much prefer the "Original Duck". I bet that "Improved Duck" is less functional too....

Both could be made the same height with the same surface area so your comment on functionality is 10000% missing the point of the entire discussion.

[ADDvanced]

Originally Posted by mepstein

To me, one of the attractions of a duck tail is it looks purposeful and not smoothly integrated. It yells - Porsche race car. It looks genuine, not generic. The Singer duck looks like it’s trying not to offend anyone. Blah.

So you're admitting the original one looks offensive? I agree.

[winders]

Originally Posted by ADDvanced

Both could be made the same height with the same surface area so your comment on functionality is 10000% missing the point of the entire discussion.

Your entire discussion is ridiculous! It misses the point of the whole affection for Porsche cars!!

[ADDvanced]

Nah, you just don't understand, you miss the point, and you refuse to try to understand. Go away.

[lateapex911]

Originally Posted by ADDvanced

.....

A lot of you are 1000% missing my point. I'm not anti-duck. I like ducktails from afar, but the factory ones are not well refined and do not integrate into the rest of the car.

...... some of you skim over my words and just look at the pictures and respond with "Hur de dur I don't like that ....

and...

you just don't understand, you miss the point, and you refuse to try to understand. Go away

1- no, people are not 1000% missing your point. They've read your stuff.....I think they get your thinking.
2- And they read stuff you're written that is, from a 3rd person view, condescending to them...I've highlighted a couple of many such statements above. Speaking down to the audience rarely helps your case...just sayin

ergo..

Lots (I'd wager most) here *Get* your platform and points, but just don't buy it. Your reasons, sound as they might be, don't move them. If given a choice, they don't like your superior version, they prefer the existing "hack job" version, for a multitude of reasons.

Designers sometimes have to take into account the intangibles that exist in people's minds when reworking/critiquing long standing products. Seems like this is one of those situations.

[Todd Simpson]

I like hack jobs, at least when they have a motorsport link. 1973 RSR flares, oddly asymmetric when compared to 930 flares, still look better to me.

On the E30 M3, the rear window extension on the back, and the goofy raised trunk lid? Total hack job, but it worked on the track.



Back to the duck, who’s to say those awkward raised areas in front and behind aren’t providing aero advantage? Surely the performance of the duck is dependent on more than just the height and angle of the duck portion.

[wayner]

The theme of this thread overlooks the point that a duck tail was a racing part added to a car that wasn't designed to have one.

The tail looks the way it does because it is a fibreglass panel laminated to a stock deck design shape. Thats why it sits high at the edge.

Once the tail was proven in racing (and enough homologation specials so they could go racing)
then the factory cleaned it up and turned it into a production version called a whale tail.

[David Inc.]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

Well, we all have options, some based on the emotional connections that the Duck brings us back to a golden age of Porsche Motorsports, others who see it only aesthetics. Remember the 80s, and some of the absolute crazy stuff people were doing to 911s?
From updating long hoods to this :

Point is, as we age, our taste matures, while some may have really liked cars like above, prefer a minimalist look today, as the popularity of the back date prove. Since Porsche moved away from the style that most of us know and love, the 65-98 911, and the prices so that to the current platform, while capable and fast, they practically drive themselves and have no soul.

So...much...cocaine...

[Otter74]

Jeebus, I didn't know a bunch of old dudes could fanboy so hard - I thought I was surrounded by KPop stans or something.

OP is entirely correct as a matter of surface development, which was all he was talking about.

[group911@aol.co]

Yet, after months and months of chatter, he's created..............nothing. Thankfully, the factory took a different approach to fill a need- in 3 days.

Originally Posted by Otter74

Jeebus, I didn't know a bunch of old dudes could fanboy so hard - I thought I was surrounded by KPop stans or something.

OP is entirely correct as a matter of surface development, which was all he was talking about.

[icarp]

It would appear that the OP has never once been to the race track, let alone been charged with making something out of nothing at the race track within a short time crunch.

The Gurney lip was invented at the track , the car was new and undrivable ,VERY ANGRY PEOPLE YELLING , Dan said just a minute ,went to the trailer , grabbed a piece of aluminum , cobbled it on the back edge of the wing , and the car was the best car ever. Nothing could touch it , ugly as it was and is .

FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION, for a reason.

Ian

[AG81]

This thread went in a direction it probably didn't intent to go. Once it made that, I'm sure. regrettable turn it lasted 10 pages too long. I appreciate what the OP was trying to openly discuss.

[stanglife]

Originally Posted by winders

Hard core Porsche people with street cars tend to prefer "original" form over improved function or better aesthetics.

Feels like you're applying your opinion to everyone. My "opinion" is that there is definitely a window where there is a popular opinion...but out of those people, some prefer the aesthetic, some the performance...and so on. Some people can only tolerate a certain amount of "different". I like subtle changes...OEM+ stuff is great. TKOs duck is awesome (IMO) as it is a nod to the motorsport part while leaning a little to matching the more modern aesthetic of the later 964.

Good thing we all have opinions. Too bad some think their opinion the correct one.

[ADDvanced]

Originally Posted by icarp

It would appear that the OP has never once been to the race track, let alone been charged with making something out of nothing at the race track within a short time crunch.

The Gurney lip was invented at the track , the car was new and undrivable ,VERY ANGRY PEOPLE YELLING , Dan said just a minute ,went to the trailer , grabbed a piece of aluminum , cobbled it on the back edge of the wing , and the car was the best car ever. Nothing could touch it , ugly as it was and is .

FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION, for a reason.

Ian

I don't know how I can be more clear. Any of you talking about functionality, please click the back button. That is not what is being discussed here. This was a topic about the AESTHETICS of the duck, not the functionality.

Yes, Rough mockups, rapid prototyping, is the first step in the design/development process.

But STOPPING THERE, and putting something into production that is functional but not refined at all, is not how you make class-leading products.

I think you should sell your 911 and get a C5 vette with bolt ons, afterall, metrics are the ONLY thing that matters, literally nothing else is important, RIGHT?

[ADDvanced]

Originally Posted by group911@aol.co

Yet, after months and months of chatter, he's created..............nothing. Thankfully, the factory took a different approach to fill a need- in 3 days.

Did you just come at me with "Aol.com" in your username?

[jac1976]

[winders]

Originally Posted by stanglife

Feels like you're applying your opinion to everyone. My "opinion" is that there is definitely a window where there is a popular opinion...but out of those people, some prefer the aesthetic, some the performance...and so on. Some people can only tolerate a certain amount of "different". I like subtle changes...OEM+ stuff is great. TKOs duck is awesome (IMO) as it is a nod to the motorsport part while leaning a little to matching the more modern aesthetic of the later 964.

Good thing we all have opinions. Too bad some think their opinion the correct one.

Feels like you don't know what the word "tend" means......

[icarp]

OP
I have worked on more fantastic cars in history , than most people see in a book.
Delahaye, Delage, Alfa Romeo, Bugatti, Amilcar CGSS, Hispano-Suiza, Ferrari , MG K3, Aston Martin, Most of these are pre War
Porsche 550,356 speester,718 , 911 , RSR, Bentley , Siata 208s, Fiat Abarth, Brabham, Lola,
Mclaren , Cooper , Elva , Bobsy, Mercedes Blitzen Benz, Cisitalia , OSCA, BMW, .
Just to name a few .

The original post starts out with your dissatisfaction with the 73 rs Duck tail, then continues to complain. That is what I am addressing . Get in the ring , invent something .
Without a computer , just your brain and hands .