Front spoiler alternative?

[fanaudical]

I've tried searching for this one but no luck.

My Targa gets a little light up front on the highway. I'm running the standard front valence but no rubber chin spoiler. New spoilers not inexpensive (but maybe I just need to get over it and buy one...).

Has anybody built/made an alternative to the Porsche front chin spoiler to attach to the stock valence? Pics?

[AG81]

I went thru this (expensive method - new lower valance with lip) car was still too light up front. I put my spare tire back in and it helped.

[RSTarga]

What years? I can't say I've ever driven a 911 that felt too light at the front since the SWB models.
At what speeds? Tires, alignment , ride height?

[fanaudical]

I have a 75 Targa. It feels well planted until you get to around 70 mph and then it feels light and the front end gets pushed about in high winds. Alignment is good and am at Euro height. Am usually driving with the spare tire and some tools up front. No rear spoiler. I figured I would try a front spoiler to see if this makes an improvement.

[Old H2S]

Sticks like glue..

[fanaudical]

Interesting - What did you use? Looks like ~10mm thk ABS sheet.

[Old H2S]

HDPE from King Starboard sold by Offshore Outfitters. Easy to work and shape with a hand plane.
Fog lamps are from J.W. Speaker, work much better than the rectangles.

[77Targa0912]

Originally Posted by Old H2S

Sticks like glue..

JFC that’s hideous

[RSTarga]

You must have a huge rear wing

[Old H2S]

No, I do not have anything on the back, yet. It is needed, but front end lift is much worse than rear.
Tested and true since 1972 when the VW and 911 were tested and found to respond to any lip, dam or splitter tried. Look at the data that Bill V. has listed on this site for different types and down force generated. Bill I will pay good money for a hard copy of the data you have collected and your thoughts.
My problem is my back end is out of square from a snap over steer crash when testing tires on 100 ft. traffic circle with my buddies at the tire store one day and the body work is wrinkled and the engine hood will not close so I can not do any rear mods until it is repaired and the EuroPros want a trash can full of money to fix it. The unibody is perfect to the mm, so now what? It goes straight down the road.
A duck would be nice..a tail would work, that wing made of cedar looked interesting on that other thread. I am trying to not get too race car and my splitter is pushing the limit, but I must have it for where I live..windiest spot in the USA on a one lane road 75 miles long with semi trucks fighting for control. I do value comments.

[chrismorse]

Recalling Paul Frerre's information on the development of the duck and tails, onwards, It was mentioned that the principal aerodynamic shortcoming of the 911 design involved rear aerodynamic LIFT compared to front, and so, most of the effort was to reduce rear lift and, as progress was made to balance that reduction with front valance "lips', then rubber dams, then fiberglass dams, then splitters.
Considering the substantial rear weight bias on handling and the necessity to reduce rear lift, at speed, IMHO, it is also important to balance the F/R lift/downforce, aiming for balanced-neutral handling.
So, it appears that the initial efforts to improve handling at speed and with crosswinds might be best served by reducing the rear lift first, then increasing front lift reduction, in balance with reduction in lift.
Is aerodynamic downforce possible with the 911 chassis.
chris

[fanaudical]

Thanks, H2S, for posting what you've done. I had started this thread hoping to pick up some alternative ideas and see the ingenuity of others (not for others to start picking ideas apart...).

Chris - I've read elsewhere and agree that front/rear balance is important. I also believe I've read somewhere that a rear spoiler of any kind should never be installed on a 911 unless the front spoiler is present and a front spoiler can be run without the rear spoiler.

[RSTarga]

Originally Posted by Old H2S

No, I do not have anything on the back, yet. It is needed, but front end lift is much worse than rear.
Tested and true since 1972 when the VW and 911 were tested and found to respond to any lip, dam or splitter tried. Look at the data that Bill V. has listed on this site for different types and down force generated. Bill I will pay good money for a hard copy of the data you have collected and your thoughts.
My problem is my back end is out of square from a snap over steer crash when testing tires on 100 ft. traffic circle with my buddies at the tire store one day and the body work is wrinkled and the engine hood will not close so I can not do any rear mods until it is repaired and the EuroPros want a trash can full of money to fix it. The unibody is perfect to the mm, so now what? It goes straight down the road.
A duck would be nice..a tail would work, that wing made of cedar looked interesting on that other thread. I am trying to not get too race car and my splitter is pushing the limit, but I must have it for where I live..windiest spot in the USA on a one lane road 75 miles long with semi trucks fighting for control. I do value comments.

I think you may need to review your suspension settings. I am not a fan of extremely lowered cars, but yours looks like it is ready for the Safari Rallye!
With that amount of front splitter and no rear wing, the car will be inherently unstable at high speeds.

[Old H2S]

Yes it does look hideous, now. I used as much of the material size provided first to see the results and have enough left for trimming down. I have run it to 90 MPH and I would say at 80 it is starting to slow the car down so now I can contour it down to get the right loading. The under side filling in the open areas create huge downforce so the external side can be shortened. HDPE is easy to work with so modding it is not a problem.
The ride height is at USA standard in this picture so yes it looks too tall, I am running at ROW now and it is lower but still too tall. I made custom gauges to set ride height so I change it a lot to see the ride differences. Too low looks cool but shock has used up all its compliance and is harsh. Plus on all the cars I build I start with stock specs to see what all the fuss is about and then start with A vs B comparisons to see what is better. Ride height has a big factor on bump steer and toe in.At what height are the tie rods parallel to the ground on your car? Most people go for a look and put up with worse handling rather than seeing what the original design setting were like. This car gets better every time the specs get closer to stock. It is very easy to make these cars too stiff.
I have brought the front down and the back up because the PO had this car slammed when I got it in California, rising the rear helps transfer weight to the front and get the splitter angle of attack to 5 degrees which is the desired slant??? I spend time on you tube looking at the aero design and wind tunnel shows and what Porsche did in later models vs this old mule.
You can tell me anything I got thick skin, your comments help.
Old Fart out.

[dtwa]

Put this lip on the valance of my 85. I think the factory one is a little much if the car doesn’t have a tail. This one from All-Fit Automotive is 1.5 inches. It covers the front tie-downs which I was tired of seeing. The car has always been stable at anything close to legal speeds, so I can’t speak to aero stability improvement. —Dave






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[917_Langheck]

The standard Porsche front spoiler works perfectly fine. No boogy man will come and haunt you for not installing a rear spoiler.

I had the same light front end issues at around 80. Now, at a buck and twenty it is planted nicely.

[Old H2S]

I was looking at that lip too, that is just right compared to the big SC lip..

[tsuter]

I think it would be helpful to stop using this overworked term "at speed" when fussing spoilers.

What is "at speed"??? I know what "at legal speed" is so maybe that is the correct term when talking about aerodynamics or maybe specify "at race speed" for others.

My car easily redlines at 95 in 3rd gear, 130 in 4th gear and in 5th gear shift as it ramps to 140 plus you feel the aero... so I think that is "at speed"....but it is certainly not "at legal speed"......

And in any case not even needed on the I91 Gardena run LA to Anaheim.....not ever....

[Old H2S]

True, at what speed matters, are you auto crossing or road racing or making a fan boy tribute car.
My ugly mule rig starts cutting down the float at 40 MPH so to me that is an indication of too much drag at 90. I saw the retractable side steps for big pick up trucks and thought choping off the foot rail and add the splitter to keep it up tight again the front bumper until down force is needed..
Carry on Gents.

[Rtrorkt]

Front valance and chin spoiler from TRE Motorsports